±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 396
Total: 396
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Member Screenshots
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Downloads
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: CPGlang
12: Member Screenshots
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: News
37: Community Forums
38: Downloads
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: News
44: Photo Gallery
45: Member Screenshots
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Member Screenshots
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Home
62: Downloads
63: Member Screenshots
64: Photo Gallery
65: Member Screenshots
66: Member Screenshots
67: Photo Gallery
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Home
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Member Screenshots
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Contact
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Home
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Member Screenshots
111: Downloads
112: Community Forums
113: Downloads
114: Photo Gallery
115: Member Screenshots
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Home
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Statistics
127: Community Forums
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Photo Gallery
138: News Archive
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Member Screenshots
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Member Screenshots
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Downloads
151: News
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Downloads
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Member Screenshots
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Photo Gallery
176: Photo Gallery
177: Photo Gallery
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Member Screenshots
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Member Screenshots
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Your Account
198: Member Screenshots
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: CPGlang
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Your Account
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Photo Gallery
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Downloads
239: Downloads
240: Member Screenshots
241: Community Forums
242: Your Account
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Photo Gallery
256: CPGlang
257: Downloads
258: Home
259: CPGlang
260: Photo Gallery
261: Member Screenshots
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Member Screenshots
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Member Screenshots
274: Photo Gallery
275: News
276: Member Screenshots
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Photo Gallery
293: Photo Gallery
294: Photo Gallery
295: Photo Gallery
296: Home
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Member Screenshots
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Member Screenshots
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Photo Gallery
324: Home
325: Member Screenshots
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Photo Gallery
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Member Screenshots
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Member Screenshots
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Downloads
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Member Screenshots
360: News
361: Home
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Photo Gallery
384: Member Screenshots
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Photo Gallery
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Photo Gallery
395: Photo Gallery
396: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Focus on the M47
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Trevor

Here are somemore shots taken today of the cutaway tank. I found the Drivers escape hatch open. Was able to crawl into the drivers compartment and the turret. The interesting item found was the hull SN stamped into the data plate mount. The SN of the tank was 7693. Not sure why is got re stamped 20.











Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Massimo_Foti
That data plate is italian. It says the tank was revisioned by "Officine Fiore", in Caserta, not that far from Naples. Back in those day the Italian Army's tank school was stationed in Caserta (it's now in Lecce)

Hope it will help

Massimo


Thanks, Massimo - that does help. It has prompted me to research Caserta, and I have put together an entry for the armour school there:

Caserma Ferrari Orsi, Caserta

There is now a link to it from the M47:

Fort Knox Italian M47

Do you know how well concentrated are the places where Italian tanks served in Italy? For example, would it be reasonable to assume that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point (so I can add it to their previous location lists, and maps) or is that unreasonable?


On a different but related note, does anyone know the significance of the metal strips welded diagonally on the front and back of M47 turrets?



See also other M47s:

Preserved M47s

I seem to see them mostly on ex-Italian vehicles, and there are no pictures of them in Hunnicutt. I'm wondering if they may be an Italian feature, and therefore a way of identifying ex-Italian M47s. Does anyone know?

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Smashy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 05, 2010
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.

_________________
Smashy
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:24 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Do you know how well concentrated are the places where Italian tanks served in Italy? For example, would it be reasonable to assume that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point (so I can add it to their previous location lists, and maps) or is that unreasonable?


I think it's very unlike that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point. Even if a tank was revisioned by a plant in Caserta it doesn't means it served there too.
At firt the M47s were fielded by first line units, facing the north-east border with Jugoslavia and Austria. Later on they were replaced by M60s and Leopard 1s and moved to second line units in southern Italy, like Sicilia, Sardegna and Puglia. There they served for a very long period. In the end some of those units were disbanded, other got Centauro armoured cars instead.

I know for sure "Officine Goriziane" was another plant who revisioned M47s. I believe OTO Melara did that too, but I am not 100% sure.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos
Trevor

Here are somemore shots taken today of the cutaway tank. I found the Drivers escape hatch open. Was able to crawl into the drivers compartment and the turret. The interesting item found was the hull SN stamped into the data plate mount. The SN of the tank was 7693. Not sure why is got re stamped 20.


Don - thanks for that, I'll add the photos asap. I don't understand the situation with the SN. The rare early muzzle brake would imply one of the pilot vehicles so 20 would make sense - not 7693. I'm confused!


- Smashy
Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.


That's interesting - is that from personal knowledge, or a suggestion?


- Massimo_Foti
I think it's very unlike that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point. Even if a tank was revisioned by a plant in Caserta it doesn't means it served there too.
At firt the M47s were fielded by first line units, facing the north-east border with Jugoslavia and Austria. Later on they were replaced by M60s and Leopard 1s and moved to second line units in southern Italy, like Sicilia, Sardegna and Puglia. There they served for a very long period. In the end some of those units were disbanded, other got Centauro armoured cars instead.

I know for sure "Officine Goriziane" was another plant who revisioned M47s. I believe OTO Melara did that too, but I am not 100% sure.


Understood - I guess we need to track down and decode some more upgrade plates.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

[quote="TrevorLarkum"]
- Dontos
Trevor



- Smashy
Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.


That's interesting - is that from personal knowledge, or a suggestion?



They are, indeed, what we call "driprails" when applied to automobiles. I asked about these once over at Pierantonio Farina's "Ferreamole" website via email.

www.ferreamole.it/imag...m47_05.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:35 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

The M60A1/A3's had them too, although not near as elaborate, they kept the driver from getting too wet.


_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:15 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Understood - I guess we need to track down and decode some more upgrade plates.


I think if you dig past messages from the forum you can find something. There are quite a few former italian M47s used as monuments in the USA, and I remember seeing some plates posted here.
I am away from home at the moment, once I will be back I will see if I have something among my pictures. Maybe from the M47 at "Museo dei Carristi" in Roma.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos
Trevor

Here are somemore shots taken today of the cutaway tank. I found the Drivers escape hatch open. Was able to crawl into the drivers compartment and the turret. The interesting item found was the hull SN stamped into the data plate mount. The SN of the tank was 7693. Not sure why is got re stamped 20.

...

Regards
Don


Thanks Don, pictures added:

Unique ID 1324: Cutaway M47


- Doug_Kibbey
- TrevorLarkum


- Smashy
Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.


That's interesting - is that from personal knowledge, or a suggestion?



They are, indeed, what we call "driprails" when applied to automobiles. I asked about these once over at Pierantonio Farina's "Ferreamole" website via email.

www.ferreamole.it/imag...m47_05.jpg


Thanks guys - I hadn't thought of drip rails!


- Massimo_Foti
Understood - I guess we need to track down and decode some more upgrade plates.


I think if you dig past messages from the forum you can find something. There are quite a few former italian M47s used as monuments in the USA, and I remember seeing some plates posted here.

Massimo


A good idea, so I've done just that - and you're right, there are lots of posts on Italian M47s in the USA. Here they are - I'll try to work through them and add entries for these tanks to PreservedTanks.com at some point:

Chiriaco Summit: www.com-central.net/in...3261#93261
Fort Hood: www.com-central.net/in...5122#45122
Killeen, TX: www.com-central.net/in...3774#33774
Millstadt, IL: www.com-central.net/in...1911#91911
Fort Lewis: www.com-central.net/in...0639#80639
Ash Flat, Arkansas: www.com-central.net/in...6108#76108
Lisbon, ND: www.com-central.net/in...3207#73207
Crane Naval Warfare Center: www.com-central.net/in...2079#72079
AAF: www.com-central.net/in...1910#61910
Camp Dodge, Iowa: www.com-central.net/in...7725#57725
Sherpardsville, KY: www.com-central.net/in...6335#56335
Fort Snelling: www.com-central.net/in...4590#54590
Camp Murray, WA: www.com-central.net/in...3462#53462
Onalaska, Wisconsin: www.com-central.net/in...2849#52849
Fort George Meade, MD: www.com-central.net/in...5907#35907

Also Italian M47, Bergen, Germany: www.com-central.net/in...3660#83660


I was just about to update all M47s with drip rails as being ex-Italian (e.g. the Stithton one at FK, and the one at Thun in Switzerland) when I found this:

- worthhaggerton
Hello from Texas,
M47 rain gutters were added to US tanks also. You will see them on NG tanks during the 1960's routs here in the US.

Rain Gutters also show up on French and German M47.

Worth Haggerton


So now I don't know what to think!

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:57 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Were these all actually Italian Army vehicles or simply overhauled at an Italian factory/depot under a US contract?

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:47 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos
Trevor

Looks good.

BTW: This is the data plate on the rear of M47 (SN3200).



Regards
Don


Hi Trevor,
Is it correct that sn 3200 is unique ID number 1326 at your site? Because it has sn 3400 on your site.

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:31 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

The one in Thun isn't an ex-italian tank. It was evaluated by the Swiss Army in 1952, and lost against the Centurion.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:39 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Here is the plate from M47 in Museo Carristi, Roma:



Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:37 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

BTW you can read more about Astra here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._(company)

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- L.Delsing

Hi Trevor,
Is it correct that sn 3200 is unique ID number 1326 at your site? Because it has sn 3400 on your site.

Regards,
Lesley


Fixed - thanks.


- Massimo_Foti
The one in Thun isn't an ex-italian tank. It was evaluated by the Swiss Army in 1952, and lost against the Centurion.

Massimo


Understood, updated. Any idea where it came from, i.e. was it supplied from the US? If so, clearly some US M47s had the drip-rails.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 4 of 8
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum