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Focus on the M47
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Massimo_Foti
Here is the plate from M47 in Museo Carristi, Roma:



Massimo


That's an interesting lead, cheers. I've written up an entry for ASTRA here:

Location 5345: ASTRA SpA, Piacenza

and updated the Carristi M47 with your photo and the details of the plate, and added ASTRA to its Location History (so it's mapped):

Unique ID 855: Museo Carristi M47

Many thanks.

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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Hi,

Another M47 here:

www.bing.com/maps/defa...vl=2&sty=b

Barstow, California. No idea why it's there, but the proximity of Ft. Irwin, 29 Palms, and the USMC Logistics Base in Barstow are probably a factor.

I have some ground pics of it here somewhere and I'll post them if I can find them. It is definitely an Italian return, in fact the Italian markings were showing through the paint when I was there.

Chuck

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Today I did notice that the M47 (SN 3200) does have the 'rain gutters'.....



I guess I need to check the others here to see if that is present.

Regards
Don
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ShermanWasRight
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

If it helps any, here's the rear plate from the M47 in Reynoldsburg, OH (no SN though):

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Tanklord
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

The M47 that was in the Louisiana Museum of Military History, which later was transferred to Camp Shelby, MS, was an Italian rebuild. It had bothe the plate with all the little squares and the plate with ORMC.

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:10 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos
Today I did notice that the M47 (SN 3200) does have the 'rain gutters'.....

I guess I need to check the others here to see if that is present.

Regards
Don


This is what I have from photo's:

Unique ID 1326: Ex-Italian M47, rain gutters

Unique ID 1321: Ex-Belgian M47, has rain gutters except on front left of turret, and they are different (less obvious) than the Italian style

Unique ID 1324: Cutaway M47, no rain gutters seen, but unclear from photos (covered by tarpaulins)

Unique ID 1325: Stithton M47, rain gutters

If and when you can find the time and interest, I think the following would be useful:

1. Look for an upgrade plate on the back of the Stithton M47 - from the rain gutters theory it should turn out to be ex-Italian.
2. Confirm the cutaway M47 doesn't have rain gutters - it doesn't appear to be ex-Italian (may be genuine ex-US).
3. There are casting marks on the side of the Belgian M47 turret - I'd be interested to know more, particularly if they indicate where the turret or tank were built (should be Detroit Arsenal or American Locomotive off the top of my head). Also, do any of the others have these marks?

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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:56 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- TrevorLarkum
- Massimo_Foti
The one in Thun isn't an ex-italian tank. It was evaluated by the Swiss Army in 1952, and lost against the Centurion.


Understood, updated. Any idea where it came from, i.e. was it supplied from the US? If so, clearly some US M47s had the drip-rails.


I have no idea, sorry. I would assume it came from the US. But I am just guessing.

Massimo
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:03 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

The casting marks on the M47 turret (Pittsburgh Steel Foundry, Scullin Steel, CFM-Wheeling, and General Steel Castings, are the ones I recall.) indicate only the foundry that cast the turret, nothing else. The only tank producer that made any cast armor in the period 1940-1965 was Ford, whose GAD symbol can be seen on numerous small armor items on their M4A3s. (They also produced bogie brackets for other assemblers, but I don't believe these were armor steel.)

KL
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:31 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

I went thru M47 Photos & noticed that the Shepardsville Ky M47 does have the 'rain gutters'

However%20it%20does%20not%20seem%20to%20have%20the%20Italian%20Rebuild%20data%20plate....

Trevor
Due to the proximity to Ft Knox, perhaps this may be one of your mystery M47's (#3 or #4).

Just a thought
Don
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:36 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

I looked at my photos and see plates in two positions: One is about three inches below the right lift lug, the other is about six inches below the tow cable clamp - perfectly positioned to be blocked by the railing in your photo!

KL
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- C_Sherman
Hi,

Another M47 here:

www.bing.com/maps/defa...&sty=b

Barstow, California. No idea why it's there, but the proximity of Ft. Irwin, 29 Palms, and the USMC Logistics Base in Barstow are probably a factor.

I have some ground pics of it here somewhere and I'll post them if I can find them. It is definitely an Italian return, in fact the Italian markings were showing through the paint when I was there.

Chuck


Thanks for that - I'm currently 'officially' working on Preserved Tanks at Fort Knox (hence all the FK discussions, including M47s) and Preserved Tanks in Italy (hence the Museo Carristi M47 discussion). However, I'm getting intrigued by these M47s, and I'm easily distracted (!), so I've stopped to research and write up the Barstow M47 (thanks for the Bing link, that was a very good place to start):

Location ID 54610: Barstow Centennial Park

(or you can go straight to the tank:

Unique ID 1328: Barstow M47)

Let me know if there's anything I've left out or should change, or if any of the links on those pages don't work. It would be great to add your pics if you find them (best method for me is if you send the originals to trevor-larkum at armourarchive.co.uk and I will process them for the website). I also hope they indicate which Italian plant reworked it (for now it has a general 'Italian' location marked on the map).

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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Trevor,

Are you tracking two tanks at Chiriaco Summit? I have pics of a green one and a brown MERDC one there.

Here is the Barstow tank in April of 2008:

The%20'license%20plate'%20is%20missing,%20but%20there%20were%20numbers%20underneath%20it.%20%20I%20couldn't%20make%20them%20out: [img]%20http://www.com-central.net/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10540/normal_m47_barstow_2008041003w.jpg[/img] The%20Italian%20flag%20was%20showing%20through%20the%20paint%20on%20the%20front%20fender: The%20re-build%20plate%20was%20missing%20(which%20seems%20common%20for%20displayed%20M47s),%20you%20can%20see%20the%20mounting%20plate.%20%20The%20Italian%20flag%20is%20showing%20through%20on%20the%20fender.%20The%20opposite%20fender%20had%20numbers%20that%20had%20been%20painted%20over%20that%20looked%20like%20a%20row%20of%20zeros,%20pretty%20much%20illegible.%20%20There%20is%20a%20triangular%20armor-looking%20insignia%20on%20the%20access%20plate,%20that%20looks%20similar%20to%20the%20US%20armor%20division%20patches,%20but%20not%20quite%20the%20same.

Enjoy!

Chuck

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- ShermanWasRight
If it helps any, here's the rear plate from the M47 in Reynoldsburg, OH (no SN though):


Thanks - that has prompted me to add an entry for this one too:

VFW Post 9473, Reynoldsburg, Ohio

(Unique ID 1329: Reynoldsburg M47)

Do you have any general pictures of it that I could use?


[Everyone else - thanks for your posts, I'm trying to work through them in order.]

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Chuck,

That Triangular decal is the old "NTC" sticker we used to have at Irwin. Armor symbol with no name below and a circle in the center with "NTC" inside it. Used to pass that tank on the way to work, She was right next to the overpass of I-15. I was at Irwin when they put her out there (Mid 80's) I'm sure she was one among many they had stored at Bicycle Lake. All were former Italian, to include the display tank on post that for a while sat in front of 1-63 Armors' Motor Pool.

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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Joe_D
Chuck,

That Triangular decal is the old "NTC" sticker we used to have at Irwin. Armor symbol with no name below and a circle in the center with "NTC" inside it. Used to pass that tank on the way to work, She was right next to the overpass of I-15. I was at Irwin when they put her out there (Mid 80's) I'm sure she was one among many they had stored at Bicycle Lake. All were former Italian, to include the display tank on post that for a while sat in front of 1-63 Armors' Motor Pool.


Joe,

That M47 was still by the motorpool as of late 2008, although it's an 11ACR motorpool now. I have pics of it too.

Chuck

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