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#1: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: Kurt_Laughlin,

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:21 am
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Is there any way to tell these apart externally?

Thx,
KL

#2: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: piney, Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:46 am
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Hi Kurt

the way to tell them apart is by the shape of the armored cover over the sight periscope. If it's rounded front to back it's a TTS housing, If it has a flat top it's IR/passive. Don't mean to toot my own horn but I wrote a PDF on ID'ing external features on the US M60 family. It's available as a free download from the group at this link
www.com-central.net/in...ds&get=306

Jeff "Piney" Lewis

#3: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: bsmart, Location: Central Maryland

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:23 am
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Piney may not want to brag about his M60 handout but I will. It used the inputs from our own 'Mr M-60' Joe_D to decide what features and variations of features were significant. Then Piney did an excellent job of illustrating those features and formatting it into an easy to carry handout.

In fact I'm glad this came up right now. My nephew will be home for Turkey day and since September lives near the M-60 in Rock Hall MD. I need him to get pictures of it for us.

#4: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: TrevorLarkum, Location: Northampton, England

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:34 pm
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Yes, it's a neat document - I'm currently using it to help me assess the characteristics of the M60's I photographed in my recent US trip. Recommended.

#5: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: Joe_D, Location: Razorback Country

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:56 pm
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Piney said,

the way to tell them apart is by the shape of the armored cover over the sight periscope

Yes, that works for old photographs and display tanks where the housing hasn't been removed, which many were.

Another sure way is if the searchlight power receptacle has been welded over with a cap. IAW official records, all 748 US Army A3 Passives were depot converted to TTS by 1984. Exceptions are the 114 that were converted locally with kits, these aren't capped and retain the receptacle, Aberdeen's M60A3 is one example.

All Anniston and Mainz Tanks were produced as TTS.

Joe D

#6: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: MarkHolloway, Location: Beatty, Nevada

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:24 pm
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deleted after re-reading question

Last edited by MarkHolloway on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

#7: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: piney, Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:13 pm
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Thank you gentlemen for the praise

Certainly most of the credit should go to Joe D. I am glad that the booklet is proving to be useful

Piney

#8: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: Sabot, Location: Kentucky

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:47 pm
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- MarkHolloway

The way I tell is the A3 has the cross-wind sensor on the back of the turret (behind loader's hatch) and it has the thermal shroud on the gun tube.

But that doesn't help to distinguish between an A3 and an A3TTS.

#9: Excellent! Author: Kurt_Laughlin,

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:52 pm
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Great document guys!

Two administrative questions:

1. How would people find that without asking as I did?

2. How did you produce the line drawings? Some I recognize from existing TMs or drawings but others look to be made from photos. That tool would be really useful.

Thanks again,
KL

#10: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: piney, Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:35 pm
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Hi Kurt

The original drawings were done with a free program called Paint.net. www.getpaint.net/ If you are familar with using what are called layers. you put a new transparent layer over the photo and in essence use the program to trace over it. a little learning curve but you get the hang of it pretty quickly. then you delete the original photo and are left with the drawing.

regarding finding the documets (I,ve done two others) go to the com central home page and click on the downloads link on the left hand side. they are in the section AFV downloads

Piney

#11: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: Doug_Kibbey, Location: The Great Satan

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:54 pm
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Kurt,

One of the many benefits of Com-Cental membership is the availability of downloads and space to have contributed items uploaded. We would always be pleased to receive any contributions to that section that you feel would be of interest to the AFV community (as they all are, I'm sure). If you need any help with that, feel free to ask. The AFV "downloads" section is here:

www.com-central.net/in...loads&c=81

#12: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: JG300-Ascout, Location: Cyberspace

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:02 pm
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Jeff,
It's a small thing, but in looking at the bustle rack configurations in the "spotter's guide" I noticed only the partial rack option with clearance for the stowed searchlight on the M60. Such a rack could also be found on M60A1's and, in my experience, generally had the AN/VSS-1 stowed on the opposite (right) side (just under turret ventilator) with bustle rack truncated for clearance.

#13: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: Joe_D, Location: Razorback Country

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:23 pm
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Ascout,

There should be a section showing the difference between the A1 detachable rack and the very late A1 and A3 one piece model. This is one way to ID a rebuild A3 without knowing the SN, since all new production Detroit A3's had one piece bustle racks.

The searchlight stowage was a doctrinal procedure, where the crew would only mount the searchlight when it's use was planned. The idea was it would be better protected when stowed. Eventually it was realized that it made no real difference and moving that "Big Screen TV" VSS-1 or 2 back and forward was just not necessary. As these A1's were rebuilt/ upgraded/ converted to later models, this capability was deleted and the the stowage bracket and rear interrupter was removed. Even some of the M60's that soldiered on in 80's with the National Guard had them removed.

Here's a picture from the original M60/M60A1 TM from 1965.

M60A1bustle rack

Joe D

#14: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: piney, Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:15 am
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Hi Ascout and Joe

if you to can get me the right info and a photo or two I will be glad to update the guide

Piney

#15: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart? Author: JG300-Ascout, Location: Cyberspace

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:40 am
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- piney

Hi Ascout and Joe

if you to can get me the right info and a photo or two I will be glad to update the guide

Piney

We aims ta' please.

FYI, Joe (not surprizingly) is correct about storage being "planned for", usually. When I was testing the AN/VSS-1 searchlights on the M60A1, the test vehicles (there were two) did not have the stowage racks or partial bustles mounted because we never stowed the searchlights, their being always mounted for use during the test project.

You are welcome to use this if it helps.

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