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Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site

#1: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: west-front, Location: Australia

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:45 am
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The Libyan Capital of Tripolis is undergoing massive civil construction works at that time. During excavations for a new residence quarter at the seashore at the western limits of the city, a WW2 tank has been unearthed.Since Tripolis was not defended by the Axis forces in January 1943 and since the damage on the tank is too various, it seems to me that this particular vehicle was used for target practicing and then left abandoned

#2: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: clausb,

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:50 am
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As this Sherman has add-on armour on the hull, wouldn't it seem rather unlikely that it has anything to do with WWII in Africa? Perhaps rather a vehicle aquired by Lybia post-war and used as a target?

Claus B

#3: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: bsmart, Location: Central Maryland

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:53 pm
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But there isn't add on armor in front of the driver and co-driver position and I thought that was one of the first weak spots that was addressed with add on plates

#4: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: claude_GILLONO,

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:58 pm
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An M4A4.
This version was quite frequent in Commonwealth hands while training in North Africa before crossong to Italy.
HTH

#5: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: Jared, Location: Wherever the army sends me

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:36 am
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The mantlet is a bit strange.

#6: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: Joe_D, Location: Razorback Country

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:56 am
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Looks like it's turned 90 degrees.

Joe D

#7: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: JimWeb, Location: The back of beyond

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:32 am
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Nah it couldn't be...

I seem to recall reading an article quite a few years ago about the development of the Churchill NA 75 by one of those involved In it the author said that they tried the gun mount at various angles on some damaged Shermans before settling on the upside down position and then transferring it to an actual Churchill.

I'll see if I can find the article.

#8: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: Buq-Buq,

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:35 pm
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I think that the rotor shield is rotated about 75-80 degrees clockwise (as viewed from the breech end). Notice where the little 'ears' are positioned.

Mark

#9: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: tankbarrell,

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:37 pm
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The M34 mantlet is only held on with 4no. 5/8" screws and in this case it almost certainly has broken screws and the shield has turned and slipped off a little. The M34A1 mantlet is held on with 6no. 1" screws.

It is an M4A4 converted to twin GM diesels from an M4A2 and used as a range target.

#10: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: Dontos, Location: Vine Grove, KY

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:09 am
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I thought I'd add my 2 cents to the conversation

Regards
Don

#11: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: tankbarrell,

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:20 am
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Not sure what that adds.... A head on of a large hatch hull with an M34 mount, not a production model. Are you saying you disagree about it being an M4A4?

#12: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: bsmart, Location: Central Maryland

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:46 am
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Looking at the spacing of the suspension I don't think there is much doubt about it being an M4A4 hull. I'm curious as to how we know it was converted to have twin diesels from an M4A2.

#13: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: tankbarrell,

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:01 pm
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I have an M4A4 I restored and so am very familiar with the engine installation. This tank is quite different. The extra filler pipes are typical of M4A2 oil tank fillers, the M4A4 air cleaner pipe holes are covered as a result, what looks llike an M4A2 fuel tap is visible on the bulkhead and the perforated fuel tank cover plates are often seen in M4A2.
Ok, it's not a definate without seeing a better view but it's also not an uncommon conversion in that part of the world.
I'd risk £10 on a bet!

#14: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: Dontos, Location: Vine Grove, KY

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:08 pm
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I don't dispute the ID as I'm not quite as proficient distnguishing Shermans.

I've got a bit of experience crewing an operational M4 & M4A2, aand I've turned a wrench or two on several Sherman projects, but I'm actually not a big fan.

I Just thought each image helped ID that vehicle as having M4A4 & some M4A2 features.

Regards
Don

#15: Re: Libya / WW2 Tank unearthed at construction site Author: bsmart, Location: Central Maryland

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:22 pm
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- tankbarrell

I have an M4A4 I restored and so am very familiar with the engine installation. This tank is quite different. The extra filler pipes are typical of M4A2 oil tank fillers, the M4A4 air cleaner pipe holes are covered as a result, what looks llike an M4A2 fuel tap is visible on the bulkhead and the perforated fuel tank cover plates are often seen in M4A2.
Ok, it's not a definate without seeing a better view but it's also not an uncommon conversion in that part of the world.
I'd risk £10 on a bet!

I am constantly amazed at how much information some folks can garner from a realtivly limited photo. As I said I could tell it was an M4A4 hull because of the bogie spacing. I was curious as to whether something in the picture told you it had been converted or if you knew more about that particular hull than had come across in the message thread.

I had never heard of Shermans having their engines converted during that time frame. Do you know if it was common?

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