M48 Shillelagh prototype
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#1: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: SHAWN PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:34 pm
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alright, i tracked down this vehicle again. last time i saw it, it was down at the arty ctr, DTW. looks like they have repainted it. it is now out in armada.
hey chris, if you are reading this, are you or anyone else you know, privy to the condition/whereabouts of other detroit monuments?


#2: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: Doug_KibbeyLocation: The Great Satan PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:54 pm
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That is a seriously rare bird.

#3: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: SHAWN PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:59 pm
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so you see the feathers too! i thought i was just trippin'

very rare bird indeed. and yet again, i find another bee's nest down the muzzle of the barrel. the tc's cupola is missing, covered with sheet metal. i was able to lift this up about 6", only to find that the hatch had also been covered with plywood under the sheet metal.

at first i hadnt been sure that this was the same vehicle but i noticed that the 1st roadwheel is still in an elevated position.

#4: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: Neil_BaumgardnerLocation: Arlington, VA PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:04 pm
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So rare its not even mentioned in Hunnicutt's Patton as far as I can find...

Neil

#5: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: Neil_BaumgardnerLocation: Arlington, VA PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:06 pm
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Shawn, great find, any chance you could do a walk-around for us?

Neil

#6: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: SHAWN PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:29 pm
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yes, give me a second to post the pics. i took about 30 today so i will get to posting asap...

#7: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: Neil_BaumgardnerLocation: Arlington, VA PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:37 pm
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Great, and if possible, you might want to consider using photobucket.com to post bigger pics - the M60A3 ones are awfully small...

Or just send them to me and I'll be happy to put them on photobucket & post them.

Neil

#8: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: jcneelLocation: Victoria, Texas PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:25 pm
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- Neil_Baumgardner
So rare its not even mentioned in Hunnicutt's Patton as far as I can find...

Neil


In Hunnicutt's Abrams book - where he is discussing the T95E8 - there are several photos of an M60 chassis that has one of these types of turrets installed (but with 20mm cannons mounted on the sides of the turret - indicated in the photo below where I have marked with arrows). It even has the same ladder like thing on the front of the hull. I don't see any photos of an M48 having a T95 turret installed as a test rig - but he does mention an M48 chassis being used as a Driver in Turret test rig - which was also part of the T95 program.

hth



cn

#9: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: JeffStringer PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:54 pm
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That's what makes this place so special. Discovering and discussing jewels like this!

What a great find!

#10: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: Neil_BaumgardnerLocation: Arlington, VA PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:36 am
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Right, sure, but there's no actual reference I can find to an M48 with a Shillelagh turret. In fact, it seems a little odd, since the M48 had already been replaced by the M60 right?

Then again, the Army had the bright idea to put an air defense system on the M48 after even the M60 was being replaced, so go figure...

Neil

#11: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: Doug_KibbeyLocation: The Great Satan PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:43 am
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Is it possible this oddball experimental turret was dropped into an M48 hull just to make a "complete" vehicle for static display?

#12: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: jcneelLocation: Victoria, Texas PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:41 am
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It's possible, but the ladder like steps seen on the front of this tank looks very much like the ones seen on the M60 chasses used as test rigs for other T95 experimental turrets. This leads me to believe that this whole tank is a test rig. But like Neil says - it is not shown or listed in the Hunnicutt's book - so I have nothing to back this up.


cn

#13: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: Roy_A_LingleLocation: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:52 am
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Hi Folks!

- jcneel

It's possible, but the ladder like steps seen on the front of this tank looks very much like the ones seen on the M60 chasses used as test rigs for other T95 experimental turrets. This leads me to believe that this whole tank is a test rig.


Remember back in 1974, the Army started thinking it didn't have enough tanks after reviewing the lessons learned from the 1973 shoot out.

Maybe this was a case of somthing needed tested and a 48 hull would do and was available while every 60 hull we had was needed for the big one in Europe.

Great find!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

#14: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: Vivman PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:16 am
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Hi all,

Well this vehicle facinated me so I started doing a little research and I found a couple of other references. In Fred Crismon's "U.S. Military Tracked Vehicles" on page 121 he has a picture of what looks like an M48 or M48a1 hull mounting a Shillelagh in a similar but not identical turret to the one pictured above.

The second reference is in Crow and Icks "Encyclopedia of Tanks" on page 236. It identifies a vehicle as follows, " M48 with Shillelagh, squat cast turret, right centre cupola, rotatable hatch w/3 extendable periscopes, left rear side extendable range-finder, ventilator rear right top."

Granted it is not much but, it suggests that this vehicle was not just a bashed together "Tanken-stein" to be used as a tank monument.

#15: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype Author: Doug_KibbeyLocation: The Great Satan PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:43 pm
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- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

- jcneel

It's possible, but the ladder like steps seen on the front of this tank looks very much like the ones seen on the M60 chasses used as test rigs for other T95 experimental turrets. This leads me to believe that this whole tank is a test rig.


Remember back in 1974, the Army started thinking it didn't have enough tanks after reviewing the lessons learned from the 1973 shoot out.

Maybe this was a case of somthing needed tested and a 48 hull would do and was available while every 60 hull we had was needed for the big one in Europe.

Great find!
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Not to mention partially depleting it's own strategic reserve of tanks after the IDF saw over 400 of theirs get toasted. Suddenly, M60's of any variant probably started to seem a lot more valuable. I betting though, that this M48/Shillelagh mule was cobbled together well before the Yom Kippur War.

I'd like to see Neil taken up on his offer to get higher res pics posted...like Jeff said, this "jewel" is too unique not to get documented well...while it still exists and can be accounted for.



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