±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 629
Total: 629
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Photo Gallery
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Your Account
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: News Archive
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Photo Gallery
34: CPGlang
35: Community Forums
36: CPGlang
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Member Screenshots
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: News
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Downloads
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Statistics
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Downloads
65: Downloads
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: News Archive
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Downloads
87: Photo Gallery
88: Home
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Photo Gallery
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Downloads
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Home
108: Home
109: Downloads
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: CPGlang
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: CPGlang
119: Downloads
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Downloads
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: CPGlang
128: Community Forums
129: Downloads
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Downloads
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Photo Gallery
150: Home
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Photo Gallery
156: Photo Gallery
157: Photo Gallery
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: News Archive
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: CPGlang
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: News Archive
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Your Account
191: Photo Gallery
192: Photo Gallery
193: CPGlang
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: News Archive
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Member Screenshots
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Photo Gallery
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Your Account
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Statistics
245: Community Forums
246: Downloads
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Photo Gallery
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Home
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Statistics
261: Home
262: Photo Gallery
263: Photo Gallery
264: Member Screenshots
265: Community Forums
266: Downloads
267: Photo Gallery
268: Home
269: Photo Gallery
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Home
285: Photo Gallery
286: Photo Gallery
287: Home
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Home
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Member Screenshots
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Member Screenshots
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Downloads
332: Home
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Your Account
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: CPGlang
340: Your Account
341: CPGlang
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Photo Gallery
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Statistics
352: Community Forums
353: Downloads
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Member Screenshots
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Your Account
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Downloads
370: Downloads
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Member Screenshots
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Downloads
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: CPGlang
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Your Account
392: CPGlang
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Photo Gallery
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery
401: Downloads
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: News Archive
415: Photo Gallery
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Your Account
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Home
422: Home
423: Downloads
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Statistics
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Downloads
450: Community Forums
451: Statistics
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Statistics
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Home
460: Photo Gallery
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Downloads
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Member Screenshots
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Member Screenshots
484: Community Forums
485: Photo Gallery
486: Downloads
487: CPGlang
488: Home
489: Home
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Photo Gallery
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Photo Gallery
501: Photo Gallery
502: Statistics
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Downloads
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Home
512: Photo Gallery
513: Photo Gallery
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Home
517: Downloads
518: Home
519: CPGlang
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: News
531: Community Forums
532: Home
533: Statistics
534: Downloads
535: Photo Gallery
536: Downloads
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Your Account
544: Community Forums
545: Home
546: Photo Gallery
547: Statistics
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Statistics
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Photo Gallery
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Community Forums
562: Home
563: Home
564: Community Forums
565: Home
566: Photo Gallery
567: Member Screenshots
568: Community Forums
569: Home
570: Photo Gallery
571: Home
572: Member Screenshots
573: Photo Gallery
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: CPGlang
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Downloads
585: News Archive
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Photo Gallery
590: Photo Gallery
591: Photo Gallery
592: Photo Gallery
593: Statistics
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Home
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Downloads
614: Photo Gallery
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Member Screenshots
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Member Screenshots
625: Photo Gallery
626: Community Forums
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
T95 / T96 rehash
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:14 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Neil

Try this one, I just amended from 2 documents:



My head is beginning to hurt. Wink

ah, but I do so love a challange....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

You might want to add columns for current location and serial number (since we have at least 2).

To make sure I have this straight, are you suggesting that chassis 4, 7, 8 & 9 were given new RNs after conversion?

FWIW, I'd avoiding double-listing individual vehicles... Perhaps include an "original RN" and "new RN" (where applicable) columns?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Don,

I always believed the T95 can be traced as the root to the modern FCS in the M1 if your really dig deep. Even OPTAR, the pre-curser to the laser range finder is linked in with it. Truth be said, most of what the M1 is, was developed long before the GM Chrysler showdown ever happened with the MBT70, M60A2, and T95 series. The decision to go with who made the tank was mostly political, since the Army would tell who ever got the contract what they really wanted once congress gave approval.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- Neil_Baumgardner
You might want to add columns for current location and serial number (since we have at least 2).

To make sure I have this straight, are you suggesting that chassis 4, 7, 8 & 9 were given new RNs after conversion?

FWIW, I'd avoiding double-listing individual vehicles... Perhaps include an "original RN" and "new RN" (where applicable) columns?

Neil


I'm working on some earlier dated material, which I'll add columns for each to keep the confusion to a minimum. All my notes, are from documents. Stuff seems to be bouncing around, but this will clear once I can organize it. (hopefully...!!)

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:29 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- Dontos
- JG300-Ascout

To say nothing of the hulls, apparent from the front glacis.

Why is the gun tube so short with bore evacuators placed proportionately? Was there to be a demo variant?


The turret has the XM81, 152mm gun system. I believe it is the development 'chain' to the M60A2 turret system.

T95 (test rig) in the LST is THAT configuration. Trying to dig up stuff on it.

Don


I thought as much, but didn't see it on the "chart". Thought I recognized it. Wink

Doesn't the one from the LST building have an M60A1E2/A2 turret on it, though? Just an extension of the program?

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:37 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Here is another flow chart (if you can read the 'chicken scratch')



Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:02 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Neil

I'm looking at a Sept 1957 note of future chassis deliveries for the project. It includes additional 'NEW' chassis #s:

# 10 Nov 1957
# 11 Dec 1957
# 12 Jan 1958

its quoting 'Pre-Production Pilots of M48A2/T95' (gotta dig this one up & hope it'll be able to give some indepth info.)

Why do I do this to myself...?? (You could have warned me.... Wink

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:09 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Ummm... How many times have I mentioned before that the T95 series seems very hard to discern? Wink

Thanks though!

Again, keep an eye for any reference to serial numbers... I'm not convinced they're the same thing as chassis numbers...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:34 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- Neil_Baumgardner
Ummm... How many times have I mentioned before that the T95 series seems very hard to discern? Wink

Thanks though!

Again, keep an eye for any reference to serial numbers... I'm not convinced they're the same thing as chassis numbers...

Neil


I think that Chassis # is the SN for these prototypes. BUT,....the confusion partially stems from annotations of turret #'s. I'm seeing such references, and initially mistook it for chassis #'s. The fact that the chassis #'s don't seem to match any sequential order for the RN's is confusing though. (luckily the chassis #'s are welded on the hull, not just stamped on the tow eyelets)

So far chassis #'s are matching up with RN's, even thru some of the upgrade rebuilds, but there are some serious 'gray' areas.

I'm on the uphill climb on a learning curve. (just wish it wouldn't 'zig-zag' sooo much...!!)

Time for bed,....I have a headache.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Don,
Big problem with chassis #s vs serial #s. Take the Knox LST T95. From what I remember there's photo evidence (I'll need to recheck the JMO article) that its 9B1051 Chassis #6 - but it has SN 8 under the front hull.

We've already been down the chassis # vs serial # path on these before and decided there wasnt an obvious correlation... Unfortunately...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Actually from my pictures of the Weirton T95 it appears that the serial number is cast into the hull. Now whether we are calling that the Chassis number or the Serial number is open for discussion (and whether it is the vehicle serial number or the Hull casting serial number) but the number under the front of the hull is labeled SER NO

Maybe we need to step back and confirm what information we have on each known vehicle and the source for the information. I have a fear that some of the information that we believe has been cross checked is subject to circular references.

I've always found it annoying that the army has two different tracking numbers for each vehicle (RN and SN) and isn't consistent in how it marks and with how much permanancy that marking has. Why the RN isn't recorded permanently on each vehicle Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad is beyond me. It is almost like they want the system to be confusing so that individual vehicles can't be tracked.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Hey everyone,

Food for thought,

1, Those cast SER-NO does not mean serial number, but series number by the outfit who cast the steel. Case in point is the recently posted Ash Flat AR M47 and the use of it for the SN.

2, The Army assigns Registration Numbers only, and depending on what year the tank was made determines what system it used. A big old mess is what it is with M60's since they stayed in production so long.

3, Serial Numbers are assigned by the manufacturer. In my opinion the best way to track a tank. Since it transcends branches of the Military (Army and Marines) and Countries, and BTW, are hull generated, even though turrets data plates usually match the hull.

As far as the T95 goes, I went over the example at Fort McCoy when up there and could not find any stamping for a SN anywhere, if there was one it has long since been painted over or wore off where ever it is. The cast mark on the hull is SER-12, and the M48 turret is SER-29. Manufacturer is American Steel Foundries, East Chicago Indiana Works. If you could locate a -10 or -20 of the T95 maybe it shows the external SN or RN location in the Stowage and Sign Guide section. Most manuals back then did.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:28 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Joe D,
Good points, many thanks. Because the T95s are SOO different, and it was the only "serial number" we could find, I thought that perhaps these cast numbers were indeed the actual SNs.

Don, do you have access to these -10 or -20s?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Thanks Joe

but about the RNs I know on M60s we often find them stamped on the bow near the headlight but in general on most vehicles I think they are just painted/decaled on and disappear when the vehicle gets repainted

And some vehicles don't seem to have any permanent external marking. I can see that on a test vehicle like the T95 but on M114s or M48s.

I guess I'm used to aircraft where each one was known by a 'tail number' which was created when the aircraft was ordered and followed it in all records and marked in expected places on the airplane.

Would there be -10s or -20s on T series vehicles or would those only be produced when a vehicle was standardised as an M series?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Bob,

Another good example of not having an external SN stamping are the M42 "Dusters", unless you count the plates found welded on the rear.

The PV M1's are also not stamped with any external numbers IIRC. Leads to much confusion there too.

There should be some TM's for the T95 series and they should be written just like the standard ones for the Tanks of that period. Just like there were TM's for the M60A1E1/A1E2 and MBT-70/XM803, the former eventually being type classified M60A2. I would imagine some archive should have them, either Knox or Aberdeen. Manufacturers generally destroy/dump stuff like that if the system isn't purchased, and besides, since the development is usually taxpayer funded it tends to be turned over to the military and belongs to Uncle Sam.

Don, better get your "Indiana Jones" hat on and start researching the "Catacombs" of Fort Knox Wink .

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum