±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 666
Total: 666
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: CPGlang
03: CPGlang
04: Community Forums
05: Downloads
06: Community Forums
07: Member Screenshots
08: Community Forums
09: Member Screenshots
10: Home
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Downloads
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Your Account
32: Community Forums
33: Downloads
34: Downloads
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Home
45: Photo Gallery
46: Photo Gallery
47: Photo Gallery
48: CPGlang
49: Community Forums
50: CPGlang
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: News Archive
57: Downloads
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: News Archive
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Your Account
68: Your Account
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Downloads
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: CPGlang
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: CPGlang
83: Community Forums
84: CPGlang
85: Community Forums
86: News
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Member Screenshots
92: Member Screenshots
93: Home
94: CPGlang
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Downloads
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Member Screenshots
115: Community Forums
116: Member Screenshots
117: Downloads
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: CPGlang
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: CPGlang
124: Photo Gallery
125: Photo Gallery
126: Downloads
127: Downloads
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Downloads
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Member Screenshots
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: CPGlang
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Your Account
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: CPGlang
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Home
159: CPGlang
160: Community Forums
161: Member Screenshots
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Downloads
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Downloads
187: Downloads
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Member Screenshots
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Member Screenshots
196: Community Forums
197: Member Screenshots
198: Community Forums
199: Downloads
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Member Screenshots
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: CPGlang
206: Home
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: News Archive
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Contact
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Your Account
227: Downloads
228: Downloads
229: Community Forums
230: CPGlang
231: Photo Gallery
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Downloads
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Your Account
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Downloads
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: Photo Gallery
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Downloads
269: Downloads
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Your Account
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: CPGlang
287: Photo Gallery
288: CPGlang
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Downloads
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: CPGlang
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Downloads
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Photo Gallery
325: Community Forums
326: Downloads
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: CPGlang
330: Community Forums
331: Home
332: CPGlang
333: Photo Gallery
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Your Account
338: Community Forums
339: CPGlang
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Your Account
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Your Account
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Downloads
358: Home
359: Photo Gallery
360: Downloads
361: Community Forums
362: Photo Gallery
363: Downloads
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Statistics
367: Community Forums
368: Your Account
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Photo Gallery
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: News
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Downloads
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Home
399: Home
400: Home
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Downloads
420: Member Screenshots
421: Home
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Member Screenshots
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Community Forums
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Statistics
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Photo Gallery
441: Home
442: Photo Gallery
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: CPGlang
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Member Screenshots
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: News
465: Community Forums
466: Downloads
467: Home
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: CPGlang
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Member Screenshots
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: CPGlang
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Home
494: CPGlang
495: Community Forums
496: Home
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Statistics
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Your Account
514: Community Forums
515: CPGlang
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Home
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Your Account
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: CPGlang
528: Home
529: Community Forums
530: Home
531: Member Screenshots
532: Photo Gallery
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Photo Gallery
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: CPGlang
543: Community Forums
544: Downloads
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Home
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Photo Gallery
561: Community Forums
562: Home
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Downloads
567: Home
568: CPGlang
569: Community Forums
570: CPGlang
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Your Account
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Home
580: CPGlang
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Downloads
585: Home
586: Community Forums
587: CPGlang
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Statistics
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Downloads
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Home
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: CPGlang
603: Home
604: Community Forums
605: Downloads
606: Community Forums
607: Member Screenshots
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Home
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Home
619: Photo Gallery
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Photo Gallery
624: Community Forums
625: Home
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Statistics
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Photo Gallery
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: CPGlang
637: Downloads
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Home
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Photo Gallery
646: News Archive
647: Community Forums
648: Home
649: Downloads
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Statistics
655: Community Forums
656: Home
657: Community Forums
658: Your Account
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Photo Gallery
662: Community Forums
663: Photo Gallery
664: Community Forums
665: Member Screenshots
666: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Blackjack
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:12 am
Post subject: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

In one of the Osprey Elite books on the Warsaw Pact, it states that the East German NVA had a unit outfitted with M113s and an M47 or two to look like West German vehciles (smoke dischargers, etc) that were obtained from Vietnam. This unit was to wreck havoc if East and West were to ever come to blows, which thankfully they never did. They would have made things confusing for a while, anyhow...

I heard a rumor many moons ago that there was a Chieftan in Poland that was used for evaluation and training, obtained from Iran, but I haven't heard anything since. An M107 was a gift from Vietnam for aid given during the war, a war trophy that can be seen in Warsaw today, so not the same as the Chieftan.

The US holdings are pretty well known, coming from Egypt and Israel before the Wall came down. Supposedly, a few Scuds were aquired after the Wall came down and their crews in cooperation with the US Military demonstrated what operating procedures were as a number were fred off in Nevada and potential countermeasures developed.

The USSR got an M-60 with blazer armour from Syria which was reverse engineered and lessons passed on to their own armor. What others are there that may be known of? I think its odd after all this time that the Chieftan is still a tightly held secret, if it was ever in Polish hands at all. There have to be other unique vehicles out there in strange lands with unique stories behind them....
Back to top
View user's profile
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Blackjack
An M107 was a gift from Vietnam for aid given during the war, a war trophy that can be seen in Warsaw today, so not the same as the Chieftan.


It was still there in the summer of '07 at the Polish Army Museum.

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:15 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

If you remove the option of captured and reused by the second owner, there are a lot fewer possibilities. Sales are an obvious source of unusual uses.

There are stories of an Italian Leopard I winding up in the USSR for observations.

How about some of the Israeli Shermans in Chile - third or fourthhand?
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

I'm not sure I'm convinced that the NVA were intending those vehicles for subterfuge, I would have thought more likely as OPFOR vehicles.

As JG300-Ascout says the M107 is in Warsaw, along with a Leopard - you can see them here in a private (unfinished) part of my site:

www.preservedtanks.com...0&Select=4

I'm also not convinced the USSR has an M60 with Blazer, my guess is it's been confused with their M60, and their M48 with Blazer. They can be seen in my public Kubinka section (click on Foreign Vehicles) - along with a Chieftain and some other interesting stuff:

www.preservedtanks.com...4&Max=2146

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

About 5 years ago a SCUD was tested at White Sands Missile Range.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

When I was stationed at Fort Irwin I heard of a similar OPFOR unit to ours run by the Soviet Army somewhere in the Ukraine.

They were supposedly outfitted with captured equipment, although the scale and instrumentation was no where near as in depth as what we were doing. Never heard any more since then.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Taranov
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Posts: 344
Location: Moscow, Russia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

Correction:
M48A5 with Blazer armor, trophy on 1982 conflict, if we are talk about Kubinka tank. Chieftain Mk.5 and Scorpion - gift from Saddam, ex-iranian tanks.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

In the late 70's there was an operational 'Hind D' at Ft Bliss, for a brief period of time. It was kept 'under wraps' but was operational and used on occasion. I happened to see it a couple times as it flew around the desert.

I did hear it was 'on loan' from Ft Hunter-Ligget in California, but not sure of that 'rumor'.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

JRTC at Fort Polk has Mi-24 Hinds, used to pride themselves on having the best operational availability of any Hind unit in the world LOL... I was promised a ride (presumably in the cramped assault compartment) when I visited as a reporter some years ago, but we ended up on a Black Hawk instead Sad

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

This is at Fort Bliss. I talked to the US Army pilot and he said they were training foreign pilots.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- TrevorLarkum
As JG300-Ascout says the M107 is in Warsaw, along with a Leopard - you can see them here in a private (unfinished) part of my site:

www.preservedtanks.com...p;Select=4

I'm also not convinced the USSR has an M60 with Blazer, my guess is it's been confused with their M60, and their M48 with Blazer. They can be seen in my public Kubinka section (click on Foreign Vehicles) - along with a Chieftain and some other interesting stuff:

www.preservedtanks.com...p;Max=2146


Apologies to anyone who clicked on these and got a 'Service Unavailable' message, as I did earlier today. It's now fixed and these links are working again.

As Taranov said, the M48 with the Blazer is the M48A5, #124 (I should have been more specific as there's also an M48A3 in the collection, #123):

www.preservedtanks.com...;Select=15

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

Mark,

That is most likely an Afghan Pilot in there being trained. Met a bunch of them in 2006 at the CIF facility.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Joe_D
Mark,

That is most likely an Afghan Pilot in there being trained. Met a bunch of them in 2006 at the CIF facility.

Joe D


When I worked as a fuel man at White Sands they brought one of these out one day and I refueled it. It had the American crew but they were testing American-made machine gun mounts in it. I think that had the SAW and M240.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Neil_Baumgardner
JRTC at Fort Polk has Mi-24 Hinds, used to pride themselves on having the best operational availability of any Hind unit in the world


Yeah, if you listen to the far right wing wackos on shortwave radio or any of their crazy rags, that's proof we have Russian and U.N. bases in the U.S. ready to take over for the New World Order. One of the better laughs I got, was a pic of Canadian Cougars on rail cars going to NTC. They were still painted white, having just come back from Bosnia, according to the wackos this was more proof of N.W.O. forces comming into the U.S..
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum