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Centurions in US Service ??
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:48 pm
Post subject: Centurions in US Service ??

A question came up today at a Museum Volunteer Work day.

Did a US armor unit ever use Centurions?

If so....

1)When would they have been operationally used?

2)What US Armor Battalion used them??

Any ideas &/or info would be awesome

Regards
Don
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

Not my area of expertise, but....

I have had an individual swear that the US used them in Korea during the war, stating he seen a picture of one with US markings. That was an assumption made due in fact that the UK Tanks sported white stars on occasion to make sure they were not engaged by friendlies. Sorta a universal recognition symbol for the times.

Maybe some individual tanks might have been cross attached to US units, near the end many were used as mobile fire support for patrols. Can't imagine any being crewed entirely by US crews though.

Be interesting to find out if they were and the reasons behind it.

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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

- Joe_D
Not my area of expertise, but....

I have had an individual swear that the US used them in Korea during the war, stating he seen a picture of one with US markings. That was an assumption made due in fact that the UK Tanks sported white stars on occasion to make sure they were not engaged by friendlies. Sorta a universal recognition symbol for the times.

Maybe some individual tanks might have been cross attached to US units, near the end many were used as mobile fire support for patrols. Can't imagine any being crewed entirely by US crews though.
Be interesting to find out if they were and the reasons behind it.


Agree. Just imagine the maintenence and supply train complications that would attend such an ad hoc unit. Maybe an American crew jumped on and manned one on some occasion, but an American unit so supplied? Defies imagination.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

Agreed. Only "American-crewed" Centurion(s) I could imagine would have been ones sent over for evaluation at Fort Knox and/or Aberdeen Proving Ground.

Was the one in the Patton Museum at Richardson Motorpool evaluated by the Armor Board/School, or just sent over as a museum piece?

AFAIK, the Ordnance Museum has never had a Centurion, which likely indicates one was never evaluated at APG (which is a bit odd in itself). If my books werent all packed up right now I'd look into British attempts to sell the Centurion to the US, etc...

Neil
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

As for the Centurion in the collection, it was a trade deal.

The initial question comes from an individual who got a centurion (1/72 scale ? possibly diecast...) from a tank series with photos & sample markings. Supposedly there was an image with US markings. I belive the item was purchased in the UK on a recent visit by the individual who brought up the question.

I assumed Korea, but I am still clueless.

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Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

Probably this Altaya Centurion



Although its clearly marked on its base as belonging to the 8th Kings Royal Irish Hussars...

Neil
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

Perhaps so.....

Hopefully clear this all up when I hear back form the individual who brought it all up.

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Don
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:53 am
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

As MDAP the USA bought at least 592 Centurions (rns: KX-10-01 - KX-15-92) and 66 Centurion ARV mk.2(rns: KX-06-51 - KX-07-16)for the Netherlands.

These stayed US property and had to be returned after withdrawal.

So in a certain way the US had Centurions Wink

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

Don,

Colorado was one of the first batch of Centurions to arrive in Korea during the war. I believe it or one of the others, Caugho IIRC, were the first to destroy an enemy tank from the UK forces. The irony was they destroyed a captured Cromwell. I have a book somewhere describing the encounter and where it happened. Maybe I need to dig it out.

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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:44 am
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

- L.Delsing
As MDAP the USA bought at least 592 Centurions (rns: KX-10-01 - KX-15-92) and 66 Centurion ARV mk.2(rns: KX-06-51 - KX-07-16)for the Netherlands.

These stayed US property and had to be returned after withdrawal


The Dutch goverment had to return them to the rightful owners being the USA, that was part of the MDAP agreement

However the US didn't want them in 1983 Laughing Laughing
Instead most of the (now) US Centrurion where shipped to Austria who used the turrets for defence works
Most of the hulls became scrap

However there is more
There where also 216 Centurion tanks supplied to Denmark under the MDAP programm

So the US once had more then 800 Centurion tanks Cool

Michel

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Hanno_Spoelstra
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:36 am
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

However the US didn't want them in 1983
Instead most of the (now) US Centrurion where shipped to Austria who used the turrets for defence works
Most of the hulls became scrap


Actually, many if not most of the hulls and remaining Centurions were shipped to Israel. Others became targets on the ranges.

- Hanno_Spoelstra
Somewhere I have the number of ex-Netherlands Army Centurion tanks which were supplied to Austria. These were supplied under MDAP, and after replacement by Leopards they were handed back on paper to the USA, who of course had no idea what to do with them. Austria had a need for tank turrets for their bunkers, and at the same time Israel was looking for Centurion automotive spares. It was a Dutch officer who came up with the plan to send the turrets to Austria and the chassis to Israel. Recycling avant la lettre. . .
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:26 am
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

I'm just sore that I didn't get any Centurian time! Sad
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ossie
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Centurions in US Service ??

Hi
USA never had or used any Cenmturions in there ARMY. But they owned 75% of all europes Centurions.
alot also went to iseral as well.
Ossie
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