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valls · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

If anyone can identify the artillery pieces being towed by the M4 and M5 that would be appreciated, it's not my forte (as usual, click through for more photos).

Both are Vickers Armstrong 7.2 in howitzers used by Brasilan Army heavy artillery units.

JAValls

the_shadock · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum

Unique ID 1595: M4A1, Linhares

P.-O., I'm afraid this is the only Sherman I saw during my trip, and I didn't manage to find a serial number on it.

Trevor,

this M4A1 was not manufactured by Pressed Steel Car, as stated on Preservedtanks.com, but by Pacific Car & Foundry. Here is a clear way to identify this tank as being a PCF-made tank :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a1_pcf.html

You can see that this M4A1 has all the items that make it a tank built by Pacific Car & Foundry.

P-O

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum

The odd thing was that, according to my driver/guide, my request to take the photographs was absolutely impossible on a Saturday or Sunday, but 'would have been fine any other day of the week'! - unless I simply misunderstood what he said.

I think the dynamic is basically that it's always safer to say "No", unless you're the boss, because nobody is going to chew your enlisted or junior officer butt out for being cautious, whereas there is no upside to saying "Yes"...the only thing that can happen is that maybe they won't get into trouble. I know you're a seasoned traveler, but I generally always had the advantage of some local work or scientific/medical colleagues who both always spoke the local language and sometimes "knew a guy who knew a guy".

It took me three tries to get in at the 5th RCC in Rio Negro. Twice to get into the MkIV at Bucharest and once to get a personal tour of Parola by the commandant. Each time was due to a local contact who made some calls. The offer of any museum or library gift items you can exchange doesn't hurt either.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Doug_Kibbey

Trevor,
I'm sorry to hear that, but not really surprised, either. IME, there is a general paranoia about foreign visitors to military bases there and success is usually only realized if you have a connection at or near the very top (like the post CO) usually as a result of a referral from a current or former military contact. (I was married to a local and only got in when a retired officer and prominent local citizen greased the skids for us on a later visit...then everything was possible) This extends to even antique displays essentially on the the outskirts of the bases, of no possible security significance.

If you have occasion to visit Chile at some point, cameras are viewed with great suspicion at or near military installations as well. Oddly enough, you'd probably have a better chance in Colombia, though you can expect some thorough questioning and inspection, for understandable reasons.

The odd thing was that, according to my driver/guide, my request to take the photographs was absolutely impossible on a Saturday or Sunday, but 'would have been fine any other day of the week'! - unless I simply misunderstood what he said.

Meanwhile, I've added some more pictures and info:

Unique ID 1390: M4 HST, Linhares

Unique ID 1514: M5 HST, Linhares

If anyone can identify the artillery pieces being towed by the M4 and M5 that would be appreciated, it's not my forte (as usual, click through for more photos).

Unique ID 1595: M4A1, Linhares

P.-O., I'm afraid this is the only Sherman I saw during my trip, and I didn't manage to find a serial number on it.

Unique ID 1727: M41B, Linhares

To give background to the M41B I have written up Bernardini, the upgraders:

Location 37580: Bernardini, Sao Paulo

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum

I'm back from Brazil. I had a good time at the Linhares museum (350 photos), but was less successful at the army bases. At the first base we had a fairly unfriendly reception. At the second one we were nearly arrested, so decided to cut our losses and not visit any more bases! To finish we went to Sao Goncales to photograph the Lee in the public park.

I'll put all the pictures online as soon as I get the chance.

Trevor,
I'm sorry to hear that, but not really surprised, either. IME, there is a general paranoia about foreign visitors to military bases there and success is usually only realized if you have a connection at or near the very top (like the post CO) usually as a result of a referral from a current or former military contact. (I was married to a local and only got in when a retired officer and prominent local citizen greased the skids for us on a later visit...then everything was possible) This extends to even antique displays essentially on the the outskirts of the bases, of no possible security significance.

If you have occasion to visit Chile at some point, cameras are viewed with great suspicion at or near military installations as well. Oddly enough, you'd probably have a better chance in Colombia, though you can expect some thorough questioning and inspection, for understandable reasons.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- the_shadock

Please note that "EB 11025" is a Stuart that comes from Brazil and is noiw part of the ASPHM association. Its serial number is 9995 (I was able to check it myself during a visit of the collection) :

http://www.asphm.com/projets/projet_m3a1_stuart_2/projet_m3a1_stuart.html

P-O

Thanks for that, I'll follow that up soon.

In the meantime the first pictures from my Brazil trip are online (68 pictures, 4 tanks):

Unique ID 860: L3-35, Linhares

Unique ID 1053: Renault FT, Linhares

Unique ID 1815: M3 Stuart, Linhares

Unique ID 1733: M3A3 Lee, Linhares

[img]http:///PreservedTanks.com/Albums/American/1250-M3%20Lee%23Grant/IMG-6224_M3Lee_Linhares_AArchive_c.jpg[/img]

the_shadock · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Please note that "EB 11025" is a Stuart that comes from Brazil and is noiw part of the ASPHM association. Its serial number is 9995 (I was able to check it myself during a visit of the collection) :

http://www.asphm.com/projets/projet_m3a1_stuart_2/projet_m3a1_stuart.html

P-O

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I'm back from Brazil. I had a good time at the Linhares museum (350 photos), but was less successful at the army bases. At the first base we had a fairly unfriendly reception. At the second one we were nearly arrested, so decided to cut our losses and not visit any more bases! To finish we went to Sao Goncales to photograph the Lee in the public park.

I'll put all the pictures online as soon as I get the chance.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

My trip to Brazil has been brought forward so I'll soon be off the forum for a week.

- the_shadock

Trevor,

I would be glad to get some photos from you if you are lucky enough to get access to the tanks during your visit (most of them are located on military bases).

I would be curious to get photos from the Sherman tanks too, especially from small hatches versions.

P-O

P-O, I'll bear that in mind. If I get to any military bases, though, I only expect to be able to take photos from outside the perimeter.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Massimo_Foti

- Doug_Kibbey

BTW, with regard to tracking all these vehicles in Brazil, be aware that at least as recently as 2005 or so, there was an individual there that privately owned quite a number of former government Stuarts and other vehicles...

I think you are referring to this:
www.militarytrader.com...iscovered/

One of the tank end up in Switzerland:
www.flickr.com/photos/...4249113513

At least another one is in England:
www.flickr.com/photos/...6270470716

Since getting back from holiday I've been working on identifying and tracking down the Stuarts from Brazil, starting with the two highlighted by Massimo (see the relevant country threads). In addition I have identified and partly tracked another 10 or so. I have updated the two locations with information and pictures from a correspondent in Brazil, Paulo Bidoli:

Itupeva

Bragança Paulista

- more details to follow on the other Stuarts

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I'm back.

- vmmv1

The Stuarts that were in the private collection have been sold and are now spread around Europe and the UK. I can post some pictures of when I moved them if anyone is interested. Marc

Absolutely! Any information and pictures much appreciated.

vmmv1 · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

The Stuarts that were in the private collection have been sold and are now spread around Europe and the UK. I can post some pictures of when I moved them if anyone is interested. Marc

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Now that I think about it, the other M3 Stuart in Bovington comes from Brasil too. It was donated by the brasilian army and it's a runner:
www.flickr.com/photos/...6270470716

Massimo

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Massimo_Foti

I think I already send you quite a good amount of shots covering the swiss Stuart, including pictures taken during restoration.
The collection includes also: Alvis Striker (on sale right now), Alvis Sabre, M5 half-track, BMP-1, M29 Weasel. All runners. The Stuart arrived also with a spare diesel engine.
I have pictures of all of them, apart the Striker here:
www.flickr.com/photos/...249113513/

As for the one in Bovington, you can grab my shots directly from Flickr if you like.

Massimo

I'll be working on those Stuarts next, thanks for use of the photos. I'll also try and track down any of the other tanks that originated at Itupeva.

- bialy-r

Some M3 Stuarts

www.steindorffviaturas...p?codigo=7

www.steindorffviaturas...p?codigo=8

www.steindorffviaturas...?codigo=10

Yes, those are some of the links I used to write up the tanks there:

- TrevorLarkum

- TrevorLarkum

Location 37850: Carlos Pereira Collection, Panambi, Rio Grande do Sul

M4

I've researched this further and rewritten it:

Location 37850: Steindorff Viaturas, Panambi, Rio Grande do Sul

M3 x3, M41C x3, M5 HST, M4

Anyway, my flights were booked yesterday and I got jabbed this morning, so it looks like it's on, for the end of August. If anyone has any requests for photo's just ask, and I'll try to accommodate them. I'm unlikely to get outside the Rio area, though, so these are the collections I'll try to get to, with the Linhares one closest to Rio centre the most likely:

Preserved Tanks in Rio de Janeiro

Meanwhile I'm away on a brief holiday nearer home so will be off the forum for a few days.

bialy-r · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Some M3 Stuarts

www.steindorffviaturas...p?codigo=7

www.steindorffviaturas...p?codigo=8

www.steindorffviaturas...?codigo=10

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