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Mystery Sherman
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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DaveM2
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:52 pm
Post subject: Mystery Sherman

Hi All

Posting this on behalf. Does any one have any information on this Sherman that has been delivered for display at a Polish Museum? It is ex Belgian and looks like a composite. Any idea of identity/history?

picasaweb.google.com/1...3322094210

regards
Dave
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Tichenor
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

Not that big mystery, however...
The hull was loaded last thuesday on a truck here in Brasschaat for transport to Poland.
It's a M4A4 probably rebuild to a Firefly by the Belgian army after the war,its missing the armor plate over the hull gun mount. I've never been abel to find the serialnumber,its just visible on the rear right towlug( just could make out (17). There should be 4 or 5 numbers there. The turret commes from another M4, one from the Vissenaken depot.

mich
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recceboy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

The Sherman is on route to the same gang in Poznan, Poland, who restored the Stug IV.

Recceboy
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DaveM2
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:17 am
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

Thanks chaps, will pass that info on

regards
Dave
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

- Tichenor
Not that big mystery, however...
The hull was loaded last thuesday on a truck here in Brasschaat for transport to Poland.
It's a M4A4 probably rebuild to a Firefly by the Belgian army after the war,its missing the armor plate over the hull gun mount. I've never been abel to find the serialnumber,its just visible on the rear right towlug( just could make out (17). There should be 4 or 5 numbers there. The turret commes from another M4, one from the Vissenaken depot.

mich


I recognize the tank, it is the "Sherman nr 9" in this list :
http://www.afvregister.org/Downloads/M7B2/Brasschaat.htm







By the way, I'm very glad to see that many Sherman tanks from Braschaat are being preserved/restored, that's very good news !!

P-O

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Tichenor
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

[/quote]
- the_shadock
By the way, I'm very glad to see that many Sherman tanks from Braschaat are being preserved/restored, that's very good news !!

And its getting even better, almost al the Shermans and the M10's are going to be recovered for restoration or will go to another museum.
The same day this Sherman left for Poland another one was recovered. It will be restored and used as a monument here in Begium.

[quote="the_shadock"]I recognize the tank, it is the "Sherman nr 9" in this list :
www.afvregister.org/Do...schaat.htm
That's correct, the turret came from this one:
www.afvregister.org/De...AfvID=4795

More pictures of the transport (from the range in Belgium)
www.flickr.com/photos/...490898832/

Michel
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bialy-r
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:54 am
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

The works on Sherman Firefly where already started Smile

It is restored in Poznan and when the works will be finished, it will be pleased in Armoured Weapons Museum, Poznan (Muzeum Broni Pancernej, Pozna?) but only to 2014.

Then the Sherman Firefly will become part of new created Museum of the World War II in Gda?sk.

www.altair.com.pl/start-6138
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sil3nt
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

It's Belgian sign ?
What does this mean ?

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Tichenor
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

- sil3nt
It's Belgian sign ?
What does this mean ?


No, it isn't. At the range in Brasschaat there is another M4A4 wit the same markings, according to Joe deMarco its a shipping mark MSU could be US Medium Slow (convoy speed). Under the triangle is the Shipping Order No. the one in Brasschaat has 4-G-5491 indicating it was one of 104 M4A4s allocated to the British in March, 1944. I can't make out the markings on your picture but it could be the same. The last line could be the order No.

Any chance you could find the serialnumber on that Sherman? I did try to get it several times but the tow lug where always under water. I did however notice that on the right rear lug there was a serial partly visible, al I have is a 1 and a 7.

Michel
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

- sil3nt
It's Belgian sign ?
What does this mean ?


Hello,

this is a shipping marking, which could help to identify when the tank was delivered to Great Britain.

According to Kurt Laughlin :
"That is the shipping code. As best I can figure it out, the "MSU" in a triangle indicates this tank was shipped to Great Britain, not Continental Europe. The "M" is either the country code or code for the port where it was shipped. The "U" stands for US, & the "S" refers to the convoy speed, which could be either Slow or Fast."

Pierre-Olivier

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sil3nt
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

Thanks Michel, thanks P-O Smile

- Tichenor

Any chance you could find the serialnumber on that Sherman? I did try to get it several times but the tow lug where always under water. I did however notice that on the right rear lug there was a serial partly visible, al I have is a 1 and a 7.

Michel


Oki, I'll try after sandblasting.

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:20 am
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

- the_shadock
- sil3nt
It's Belgian sign ?
What does this mean ?


Hello,

this is a shipping marking, which could help to identify when the tank was delivered to Great Britain.

According to Kurt Laughlin :
"That is the shipping code. As best I can figure it out, the "MSU" in a triangle indicates this tank was shipped to Great Britain, not Continental Europe. The "M" is either the country code or code for the port where it was shipped. The "U" stands for US, & the "S" refers to the convoy speed, which could be either Slow or Fast."

Pierre-Olivier


I think it was actually Joe DeMarco who wrote that, not me.

KL
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:53 am
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

- Kurt_Laughlin

I think it was actually Joe DeMarco who wrote that, not me.

KL


Kurt,

after having checked the email, yes that's true. Indeed it was one of the emails you wrote to me when we were talking about the FMW Sherman at Saumur, and your email included some remarks from Joe DeMarco. Hence the confusion.

P-O

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sil3nt
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Location: Poznan, Poland
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

- Tichenor


Any chance you could find the serialnumber on that Sherman? I did try to get it several times but the tow lug where always under water. I did however notice that on the right rear lug there was a serial partly visible, al I have is a 1 and a 7.

Michel


I'm sorry, but I could not read the serial number
Corrosion on the lug are too deep ...

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sil3nt
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Location: Poznan, Poland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Mystery Sherman

- the_shadock
Mr. Green I love the smell of the mud in the morning.. Smelled like.. Victory !!

Sil3nt, do you have any news about the restoration of the M4A4 Firefly? And some pictures?

P-O


Of course,
Chassis and tower have been sandblasted, patched and painted. Several elements have been made (eg, the teeth of the drive wheel), some we got from Belgium (Muzzle brake), several still missing. End of work is planned for September / October.





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