±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 801
Total: 801
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Photo Gallery
05: Photo Gallery
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Downloads
10: Community Forums
11: Member Screenshots
12: Community Forums
13: Downloads
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Downloads
22: Community Forums
23: News Archive
24: Downloads
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: CPGlang
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Photo Gallery
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Your Account
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Downloads
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Member Screenshots
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Your Account
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Member Screenshots
99: Community Forums
100: News
101: Member Screenshots
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: News
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Downloads
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Your Account
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Home
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Member Screenshots
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Photo Gallery
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: CPGlang
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Member Screenshots
179: Community Forums
180: Your Account
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Photo Gallery
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Your Account
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Statistics
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Member Screenshots
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: CPGlang
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Member Screenshots
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Member Screenshots
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Downloads
242: Member Screenshots
243: Downloads
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Home
249: Home
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Statistics
255: Downloads
256: Home
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Downloads
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Downloads
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Your Account
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Photo Gallery
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Photo Gallery
295: Downloads
296: Community Forums
297: Home
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: Photo Gallery
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Member Screenshots
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Home
320: Home
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Home
328: Home
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Downloads
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Downloads
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Photo Gallery
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Your Account
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: News
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Photo Gallery
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Member Screenshots
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Your Account
396: Community Forums
397: Statistics
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Downloads
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Photo Gallery
411: Photo Gallery
412: Downloads
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Home
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Downloads
423: Member Screenshots
424: Photo Gallery
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: CPGlang
439: Photo Gallery
440: Photo Gallery
441: CPGlang
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Photo Gallery
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Home
460: Photo Gallery
461: Photo Gallery
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Community Forums
470: Downloads
471: Your Account
472: Home
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Photo Gallery
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Home
486: Community Forums
487: Statistics
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Downloads
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Home
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Statistics
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Home
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Downloads
510: Photo Gallery
511: Home
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: News Archive
526: Photo Gallery
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Statistics
535: Community Forums
536: Home
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: News
546: Statistics
547: Community Forums
548: Your Account
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: News Archive
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Home
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: CPGlang
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Home
562: Downloads
563: Photo Gallery
564: Home
565: Home
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Photo Gallery
570: Photo Gallery
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery
573: Community Forums
574: Photo Gallery
575: Home
576: Community Forums
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Photo Gallery
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Home
585: Community Forums
586: Statistics
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Home
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: Community Forums
600: News Archive
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Home
606: Photo Gallery
607: Home
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Home
611: Your Account
612: Home
613: Home
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Photo Gallery
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Photo Gallery
623: News Archive
624: Home
625: Community Forums
626: Photo Gallery
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Home
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Home
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Home
643: Downloads
644: Downloads
645: Community Forums
646: Photo Gallery
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: News
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Member Screenshots
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Home
665: Photo Gallery
666: Statistics
667: Community Forums
668: Downloads
669: Home
670: Community Forums
671: Photo Gallery
672: Photo Gallery
673: Community Forums
674: Downloads
675: Community Forums
676: Photo Gallery
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Photo Gallery
691: Community Forums
692: Photo Gallery
693: Community Forums
694: Home
695: Community Forums
696: Photo Gallery
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Home
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Member Screenshots
706: Community Forums
707: Home
708: Community Forums
709: Photo Gallery
710: Photo Gallery
711: Community Forums
712: Photo Gallery
713: Home
714: Community Forums
715: CPGlang
716: Photo Gallery
717: Home
718: Home
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Photo Gallery
722: Home
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: News
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Home
735: Home
736: Community Forums
737: Photo Gallery
738: Community Forums
739: Community Forums
740: Community Forums
741: Photo Gallery
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Photo Gallery
745: Community Forums
746: Photo Gallery
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Photo Gallery
750: Community Forums
751: Photo Gallery
752: Photo Gallery
753: Photo Gallery
754: Statistics
755: Photo Gallery
756: Community Forums
757: Photo Gallery
758: Community Forums
759: Community Forums
760: Community Forums
761: Photo Gallery
762: Community Forums
763: Community Forums
764: Photo Gallery
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Photo Gallery
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums
772: Community Forums
773: Community Forums
774: Community Forums
775: Community Forums
776: Home
777: Photo Gallery
778: Community Forums
779: Home
780: Community Forums
781: Photo Gallery
782: Community Forums
783: Community Forums
784: Home
785: Member Screenshots
786: Community Forums
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums
789: Home
790: Community Forums
791: Photo Gallery
792: Community Forums
793: Community Forums
794: Community Forums
795: Community Forums
796: Community Forums
797: Community Forums
798: Community Forums
799: Community Forums
800: Photo Gallery
801: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
servicepub
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

clive @ servicepub.com
Photo is already posted at ramtank.ca, click on Ram Survivors. Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

Just sent you the pics via email....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

Is this not a great display area? Very tasteful and not a lot of clutter:


Dutch AMX from the front:


...and overhead.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

Hereby to be known as the "Gavin-Lingle" (by me, anyway), I took some shots of the YPR-765 family (this may be a later version...I'm not an expert). The more I examined this vehicle, the more I wonder if we missed the boat on a satisfactory M113-M114-XM800 scout vehicle (prior to the Bradley) in a tight package. The closer I look, the more appealing this vehicle is. I don't know the service record, but I should think there would have been a role for this in our service, at least at one time.




I have to agree with you about a possible scout vehicle. Razz I remember the Army looked at a number of modified M113s and I think in the end all the testing came down to not enough money to do much. Sad What little the Scouts did get when into the XM800 project Razz Razz and as we all know, that ended up being cancelled also due to a lack of funds Crying or Very sad and other B.S. excesses. Evil or Very Mad

Again thanks for the great photos!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

It is a YPR-765PRI (Pantser Rups Infanterie), could be the normal infantry variant or a recce one which has an other arrangement of seats in the back.

For the recce units this verhicle was a interim solution awaiting the arrival of a new recce verhicle which finally arrived in december 2005 at 11 tkbat in form of the Fennek.

When the wind was good you could hear the ''enemy'' scouts leaving the assembly area because of the high pitch noise the engine made.

Other variants (past and present)of the YPR are;
YPR-765PRCO C1, C2, C3 and C4
YPR-765PRBDR (Battle damage repair)
YPR-765PRV (cargo, for the supply sgt)
YPR-765PRGWT (for the medic)
YPR-765PRMR (with a mortar behind it and racks for the ammo inside)
YPR-765PRRDR (with a battlefield surveillance radar, not in use anymore)
And a variant for the military police

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- L.Delsing
It is a YPR-765PRI (Pantser Rups Infanterie), could be the normal infantry variant or a recce one which has an other arrangement of seats in the back.

For the recce units this verhicle was a interim solution awaiting the arrival of a new recce verhicle which finally arrived in december 2005 at 11 tkbat in form of the Fennek.

When the wind was good you could hear the ''enemy'' scouts leaving the assembly area because of the high pitch noise the engine made.

Other variants (past and present)of the YPR are;
YPR-765PRCO C1, C2, C3 and C4
YPR-765PRBDR (Battle damage repair)
YPR-765PRV (cargo, for the supply sgt)
YPR-765PRGWT (for the medic)
YPR-765PRMR (with a mortar behind it and racks for the ammo inside)
YPR-765PRRDR (with a battlefield surveillance radar, not in use anymore)
And a variant for the military police

Regards,
Lesley


Thanks, Lesley...I'm looking for more background on this vehicle...a good design, I think, that got passed by without the consideration it deserves.

Oh, I got to eyeball two prototype Fenneks...one in good shape, the other worn slap out and ratty inside. Quite an interesting vehicle. I have one interior shot of the driver area (through the thick glass) that leaves a lot to be desired. I lust to drive one of these, though.

BTW, I got to poke around in a Leo 2A6 on the same trip...couldn't take any pics, but was generally impressed. One thing that's difficult to convey to other tankers, past and present, is the "compactness of size" of the crew area for the gunner and TC. Hoo-Boy!....it's mighty-tighty in thar'! The restraining bar for the gunner was interesting...I wouldn't have thought he had that much room to bounce around anyway (I was reminded of amusement park rides...."You must be this tall....or thin...to ride this ride"). The loader's area is small, compared to the old Pattons, but the right side of this vehicle is smaller than any other AFV I've ever been on. Like the Abrams, the turret size on the outside is NO indication of the amenities inside! I wish I had pics, but understandably that was forbidden.
Me likey, though! Wink

Here is the Leopard driver simulator:

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- Doug_Kibbey
- Hellfish6
I still think Centurions are the coolest tanks ever.


Well, just for you, then.... Smile


Cheers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:07 am
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- Doug_Kibbey
- Hellfish6
I still think Centurions are the coolest tanks ever.


Well, just for you, then.... Smile




A Centurion pillbox ???
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
- Doug_Kibbey
- Hellfish6
I still think Centurions are the coolest tanks ever.


Well, just for you, then.... Smile




A Centurion pillbox ???


Nahhh...just a static display. But only my good manners as a guest prevented me from demanding the CO explain why he doesn't have some one with a leaf blower, or at least a broom, follow the guys who mow the grass.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort


Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: God save us from ambivalent curators

- Doug_Kibbey


Nahhh...just a static display. But only my good manners as a guest prevented me from demanding the CO explain why he doesn't have some one with a leaf blower, or at least a broom, follow the guys who mow the grass.



It's not my museum ... but I hate to see any artifact dying of neglect.

The problem with a ground level mount will be the accumulation of water and surface rust along the bottom edges. The paint will flake and then serious rust will form. Any components that were in good condition (which of course the Dutch tankers can testify) will deteriorate rapidly. Not only do the grass clippings and mower scuffs harm the paint, but snow and ice drifts 3 or 4 months of the year.

Give the museum credit for making it a kid's level climbing gym, but the historical value of a Centurion turret will be lost in a few years (if it hasn't already). I'd encourage the museum to cut down the sloped edge of the mound to elevate the turret ring 20 or 25cm above the grade level. Even facing the slope with brick will keep the soil drier.

No doubt the current management has bigger problems, it is important for them to know that artifacts that are readily available one decade are suddenly quite scarce in only a few generations. (How much effort has been invested just in Sherman rebuilds in the last decade?) People tend to abuse military exhibits as a matter of course; would a Dutch gallery treat an Old Masters painting the same way?
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

I don't know the history of this particular vehicle, but current management's attitude toward it might be influenced by the fact that they have at least three intact Cents (that I know about, having seen them) at the same installation. I think I recall Marcel saying something about this having been part of a whole display that was rendered redundant with the acquisition of the pristine example now housed indoors (which was apparently seized from a private party that somehow failed to mention it to the authorities).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: God save us from ambivalent curators

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
- Doug_Kibbey




It's not my museum ... but I hate to see any artifact dying of neglect.

The problem with a ground level mount will be the accumulation of water and surface rust along the bottom edges. The paint will flake and then serious rust will form. Any components that were in good condition (which of course the Dutch tankers can testify) will deteriorate rapidly. Not only do the grass clippings and mower scuffs harm the paint, but snow and ice drifts 3 or 4 months of the year.

No doubt the current management has bigger problems, it is important for them to know that artifacts that are readily available one decade are suddenly quite scarce in only a few generations. (How much effort has been invested just in Sherman rebuilds in the last decade?) People tend to abuse military exhibits as a matter of course; would a Dutch gallery treat an Old Masters painting the same way?


Unfortunately I know........ Sad Two examples, one in Oirschot and one at the cavalry museum Amersfoort.

1. Since years we had an old rusty Leopard 1V at our battalion which didn't work. Some platoonsergeant with the help of the technical SM tried to restore this old tank. It was not possible because everything was rustm rust and more rust. The result of years in the rain etc. With the help of some friends of the tech SM we managed to change our old Leopard 1V for a ''brandnew'' working one from the war reserve. It was still packed with preservation grease and plastic and it worked perfect. The platoonsergeant kept this one in the same verhicle shed as the Leopard 2A5/6s to prevent rain etc coming in.

But the new battalionsadjutant (under protest of the pltsgts) decided it should be in front of the building of our battalion. Well, its now one year later and guess, it won't start anymore, the stabilisation system don't work anymore..........

2. At Amersfoort they reveived the second Leopard 2A4 which was delivered to the army (the first one we sold to Austria), also from the war reserve and in perfect working order. Instead of putting it in the hall were it is dry and safe from the elements it is outside in wind and rain. I'am afraid that within a couple of years this one will be in a very bad condition also.

Barbarians, that is what they are......

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

[quote="Doug_Kibbey"]
Thanks, Lesley...I'm looking for more background on this vehicle...a good design, I think, that got passed by without the consideration it deserves.

BTW, I got to poke around in a Leo 2A6 on the same trip...couldn't take any pics, but was generally impressed. One thing that's difficult to convey to other tankers, past and present, is the "compactness of size" of the crew area for the gunner and TC. Hoo-Boy!....it's mighty-tighty in thar'! The restraining bar for the gunner was interesting...I wouldn't have thought he had that much room to bounce around anyway (I was reminded of amusement park rides...."You must be this tall....or thin...to ride this ride"). The loader's area is small, compared to the old Pattons, but the right side of this vehicle is smaller than any other AFV I've ever been on. Like the Abrams, the turret size on the outside is NO indication of the amenities inside! I wish I had pics, but understandably that was forbidden.
Me likey, though! Wink

Here is the Leopard driver simulator:


Hello Doug,
Fennek is indeed a nice verhicle, our recce platoon of our battalion will be deployed in december to Uruzgan (afghanistan) with Fenneks. We will see how they function over there.

Strange that they didn't let you take pictures, on the yearly army open day whole tribes can make pictures inside, outside, you name it and it is possible.

I think I know what you mean. Years ago we had the possibility to visit the US army storage depot in Vriezeveen were they had M1A1(HA) tanks. We were amazed at the space they had inside! Stillm I have no problems inside the Leopard 2. I'am 1,93 meters and I had a gunner which was 1,90 meters and it still fit. When I close the hatch I have a centimeter left above my helmet.

During an exercise in Germany we managed to get 6 men inside the Leopard 2A5, the normal gunner, driver and commander positions and three on the loaders place. We were at an assembly area . It was very cold outside and some of the crew of an other tank of my platoon were ''visiting'' my tank. At the loadersarea one was standing and cooking macaroni with meatballs, one was sitting on the ground below the coax machinegun and one was sitting in the basket for the empty cartridges. Hatches closed and heater on, oh ja and they were all smokers.......

If possible, what photos do you like from the inside?

regards,
Lesley

P.S. It can take a week for replying because I have a small exercise in the ardennes.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- L.Delsing
Strange that they didn't let you take pictures, on the yearly army open day whole tribes can make pictures inside, outside, you name it and it is possible.

I think I know what you mean. Years ago we had the possibility to visit the US army storage depot in Vriezeveen were they had M1A1(HA) tanks. We were amazed at the space they had inside! Stillm I have no problems inside the Leopard 2. I'am 1,93 meters and I had a gunner which was 1,90 meters and it still fit. When I close the hatch I have a centimeter left above my helmet.

If possible, what photos do you like from the inside?

regards,
Lesley

P.S. It can take a week for replying because I have a small exercise in the ardennes.


Hi Lesley...
Yes, the Fennek looked to be a very capable vehicle...and beaucoup sex appeal...I was kinda' reminded of the APC in Aliens (but with actual ground clearance....) Driver's spot is very.....cozy.

I suppose they were just being cautions at the post about pics...everybody from the armor school thingy was at a big game and we were kinda' informally poking around one in a shop bay. Pity about no pics because the light was kinda' bad in there and I couldn't see much, expecially in the gunner's "cave".
Any pics from the fighting compartment would be welcome (and I bet the forum would like to see 'em too...hint-hint) No rush...I leave for Brasil again by about the 12th.

Say, I noticed two things: I didn't see anyway to manually open the breech of the main gun...is there one?
And, where is the switch for the ammo doors for the loader? It's a knee thing on the M1, but I didn't see anything similar on the Leo.

Well, whenever you get a chance (I'll PM you my email, too)

Speaking of older Leopards, there was this 'un....



Cheers!
D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum