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FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:11 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

That picture is from a LOOONNNGGG time ago! It was taken prior to 1985. You can tell because there are no concrete pads. The pads were installed in 1985 (or so) making a good 'Epoch Boundry' for judging photos.

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Sundrtonge
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:03 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Well here goes. Its my first picture using photobucket, thought id try it over my own site this time. One of the other pics is of the King tiger (with a little of the tiger I (in grey in the background). I assume this is the King at Ft Knox.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Well I've been holding some pictures from moving day on you Laughing

These were taken when we opened the hatch to drop some bug bombs in the fighting compartment. These are all taken sticking the camera down the hatch.

First one is pretty much straight down
This%20one%20is%20looking%20aft This%20one%20is%20holding%20the%20camera%20down%20in%20and%20looking%20forward%20and%20up.%20%20The%20whitge%20area%20is%20the%20sliding%20arc%20hatch%20in%20the%20forward%20left%20corner%20of%20the%20compartment Last%20interior%20shot%20is%20looking%20down%20and%20towards%20the%20right%20rear%20corner. %20%20The%20recoil%20guard%20can%20be%20seen%20in%20most%20of%20the%20pictures%20to%20give%20you%20an%20idea%20of%20the%20relationship%20of%20the%20photos One%20last%20photo.%20While%20we%20were%20waiting%20for%20the%20HETT%20to%20get%20there%20I%20was%20offered%20a%20chance%20togo%20for%20a%20ride%20in%20the%20M88%20(They%20wouldn't%20let%20me%20drive%20:cry:%20)%20%20We%20spent%20almost%2010%20minutes%20driving%20around%20he%20big%20field%20behind%20where%20the%20Elephant%20had%20been%20sitting.%20%20This%20one%20is%20from%20across%20the%20field%20as%20we%20were%20pointed%20back%20at%20the%20Elephant

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:37 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- RichardIsner


Now, if the Army would let some private collectors with deep pockets fix 'em up...that would be another story.


Yeah Richard, but if they did that they'd only be open to the public one day a year - if we're so lucky Wink

To provide a more reasoned response, I'd rather focus on getting the Ordnance Museum the funds it needs to have a real museum - whether its at APG or at Fort Lee. I'd prefer a museum of well-preserved non-running vehicles (perhaps with a small number of runners) that can be seen by millions of people day in and day out instead of an entirely running collection that is seen by a few thousand people once a year... But to each his own I guess...

Furthermore, with all due respect to Don and the Patton Museum volunteers, there's no insurance that the "armor museum" that winds up at Fort Benning will be anything like the current museum at Fort Knox - at the very least it wont have the benefit of an in-place crew of dedicated volunteers that it currently does. For better or worse, there might be very little difference between the Ordnance and Armor museums in 5 or 10 years.

Neil
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Sundrtonge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

If anyone is interested I have recently gotten my hands on some slides of Aberdeen (23 slides) showing various items of interest to include the Elephant in the dark yellow color. The slides are from the seventies and I have taken them to a photo lab to get put on disk. I think there may be a picture of at least the King tiger there as well maybe the tiger I (cant remember). I will be pickeing them up on thursday so perhaps I can post em over the weekend if interested.

-Dave
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RichardIsner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Hi, all,

It is great to see that the Elephant got some attention. Sadly, it will likkely end up on a concrete plinth to continue its rusting in the salt air of the Chesapeake. I can remember taking pictures of the beast in 1973! (Ok, I admit it...I am getting old!)

I can remember the Tiger I, the Panzer II and the Marder II, before they went to Germany. I realize many people will hate me for this, but I am glad they went! The Panzer II looks very nice...at least in the last photos I saw. I think the Marder is under cover as well. As for the Tiger I, I would love to see Kevin Wheatcroft restore it to running condition, fill in the side cut-outs with steel, and display it in England. If the Tiger does ever make it back here, I hope it goes into the musuem at Knox! I love APG, but putting any vehicle on concrete there is probably a death sentence. I mean no offense to the folks who work hard and volunteer at APG, or to its staff. They have precious little, and money is just not there. But I would rather see the vehicles restored and shown at selected times and special events, then put back in their stables out of the weather. I can drive to Aberdeen any day in 2 hours, but I would hate to see a wonderful and very significant relic go to what is its graveyard.

Now, if the Army would let some private collectors with deep pockets fix 'em up...that would be another story.

Anyway, hope they put some zimm on the Elephant.

Richard Isner
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:55 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

I have found tht most troops involved in day to day operations don't relly understand the history behind their profession. There are of course exceptions. The studies and evaluations were archived long ago and the current generation unerstands Diesels as old technology and turbines as new technology, but think of electric generators and motors as used in locomotives

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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:22 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

hey bob,
who was surprised to find that the elephant had an electric trans??
the army (among other initials) has/have studied that exact elephant time on and time off for years. you would think that we, not just the u.s., would have developed such a "hybrid" by now. ya, es ist eine Porsche!
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:43 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

I think there are several problems with Sea transport

1) This won't fit inside a standard 8' wide container. That means it has be shipped in a non container ship. Most of thoise today are RO-ROs. But most commercial RO-ROs are set up for consumer vehicles and don't have deck height needed or decks that will handle the concentrated loading. On top of that I doubt the shipping line would want it to be towed across their decks with the steel tracks Smile

2) Liability The combination of large (heavy) cargo and the value of the cargo makes it something that most shippers don't want to touch. I was talking with someone who handles liability for a shipping company and he said that his management would avoid that job like a plague. He said some 'weird loads' like that are done for the PR value (UPS or FedEx shipping animals or museum exhibits for example). He said the North Atlantic is especially troublesome for heavy delicate loads. (If you look at the 'plimsol markings' that all cargo vessels have to show how much freeboard they have 'Winter North Atlantic' requires the most freeboard which equates to the most reserve bouancy because of the rough conditions)

3) Tracking and security - you covered this pretty well

As I said a while back it was already sceduled to be transported on a C-5. The plane that crashed at Dover a while back was supposed to have brought it on the return flight of that trip to deliver equipment overseas. That crash and the subsequent fleet grounding until the cause was determined totally screwed up C-5 flight schedules for the forseeable future so it is a wait and see situation.

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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:05 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- bsmart
- Neil_Baumgardner
Well the good news is it's an open post (for the most part). All you need is to get the heads up and anyone can come on post that day Wink - that is assuming you get the heads up...

Neil


If it comes in it will come in to the Airfield, which is a restricted area I'm pretty sure. I've told them I still have my GI drivers license stamped 'Flightline Authorized' if Dr Atwater needs someone to drive up to the plane Wink


Is coming in by air transport a sure thing? Is there a possibility it could be sent over by container ship? That was one problem when the museum acquired the JagdPanzer IV from the UK. It was shipped over and spent a long time sitting on the dock. During that time the persiscopes and other equipment were stolen. I do hope they fly it directly to APG to avoid that from happening.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:42 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Good point, depends on whether they leave it in the "behind the fence" area... Since its already been refurbed thanks to Mr Wheatcroft, I wouldnt think it would need to go through the refurb facility... So what do they plan to do with it anyway? Park it outside the museum?

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:39 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- Neil_Baumgardner
Well the good news is it's an open post (for the most part). All you need is to get the heads up and anyone can come on post that day Wink - that is assuming you get the heads up...

Neil


If it comes in it will come in to the Airfield, which is a restricted area I'm pretty sure. I've told them I still have my GI drivers license stamped 'Flightline Authorized' if Dr Atwater needs someone to drive up to the plane Wink

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:41 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Well the good news is it's an open post (for the most part). All you need is to get the heads up and anyone can come on post that day Wink - that is assuming you get the heads up...

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:31 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- jcneel
Are they actually going to work on restoring this one, or did they just wanted to have it moved?


Well they have wanted it moved for years Rolling Eyes It does not have a 'slot' in the refurb schedule at the moment. Right now refurb is working on the Vickers Mk 6 light tank, the Mae West, and the Firefly. The Firefly got it's first primer coat this week so it is occupying the Paint Booth for a while.


Where did it get moved to? Is is now over by the warehouse or did they just put it in one of the yards?


Well by now (He looks at the clock) it should be unloaded outside the refurb shop. It will sit on the concrete pad outside the paint booth (next to the 'Vigilant' SP gatling gun) until they decide to put it in the paint booth.


Any more news on when the Tiger I is coming back??


No update on the Tiger. I am hoping that the 'notification system' that Ed used for the Elephant was a dry run for how I will find out about the Tiger (although I am hoping for a little more lead time). Rest assured as soon as I have any news I can pass on I will let everyone know. But there may be a 'News Embargo' when the Tiger comes back. That will probably be a much higher profile event and there is talk about the Air Force and Ordnance Public Affairs folks wanting to control the announcements. I just hope I don't get completely frozen out of things when the time comes.

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jcneel
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:00 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Are they actually going to work on restoring this one, or did they just wanted to have it moved?

Where did it get moved to? Is is now over by the warehouse or did they just put it in one of the yards?

Great set of photos.

I, too would love to see this one restored.

Any more news on when the Tiger I is coming back??

Thanks for the update.

Chris Neel
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