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M4 HVSS Sherman
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:52 am
Post subject: M4 HVSS Sherman

Hi Folks!

Last Thursday, a museum staff member told me that there were three more tanks coming in as part of this shipment.
One was the M41 Walker that arrived last Friday. The second one was the M36 Yugo TD and the third one was a M4A3E8 76mm. My guess is the last two arrived Monday morining before I got to the museum. They were not there Sunday when I found the M41.

Check out this shipping label. Note the vehicle is listed as a M4A3E8 and again as a M4A3. The RN number is used for both serial number and as a bumper number.
[img][/img] Right%20side%20of%20the%20bumper%20number,%204th%20Armored%20Division,%2037th%20Armored%20Battalion. [img][/img] Left%20side%20of%20the%20bumper%20number,%20Headquarters%20Number%20six,%20the%20Battalion%20Commander's%20vehicle. [img][/img] The%20RN%20number%20on%20the%20left%20rear%20hull.%20I%20think%20this%20is%20a%20decal%20that%20has%20fallen%20off%20leaving%20a%20black%20stain. [img][/img] This%20is%20what%20is%20left%20of%20the%20Thunderbolt%20VI%20(or%20maybe%20VII)%20markings%20that%20were%20on%20both%20sides.%20Looks%20like%20at%20one%20time%20this%20vehicle%20was%20marked up%20to%20look%20like%20one%20of%20General%20Abrams'%20WWII%20Shermans. [img][/img] The%20front%20view%20of%20this%20in%20coming%20M4A3E8%2076%20Sherman%20tank! For%20those%20who%20have%20not%20been%20paying%20attention,%20take%20a%20good%20look%20at%20this%20A3! [img][/img] Here%20is%20a%20side%20view%20of%20the%20in%20coming%20M4A3E8%2076%20Sherman. Those%20white%20squares%20on%20the%20hull%20above%20the%20front%20bogie%20are%20the%20shipping%20labels. [img][/img]

OK, before you all jump in and start posting that is NOT AN A3, I know it's not. But it looks the folks at the 1st AD Museum in Germany don't know their Shermans.

I could not find any stamped numbers anywhere, there are to many layers of paint on this vehicle. Does anyone know what versions of the Sherman that Thunderbolt VI and VII were?

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Michel_Krauss
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Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:10 am
Post subject: Re: M4 HVSS Sherman

Roy,

about the Shermans named Thunderbolt, see link below
There is an small note from Steve Zaloga about the Dragon Sherman kit Thunderbolt and the Thunderbolt VI and VII

misc.kitreview.com/arm...ewcs_1.htm

The Thunderbolt VI would have been an M4A3 (76mm)
The Thundebolt VII would have been an M4A3E8

Both from the 37th Tank Battalion of the 4th Armored Division

Michel

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Dontos
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Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:34 am
Post subject: Re: M4 HVSS Sherman

Is this the tank that was in Vilseck alongside Cobra King, in the 37th Armor Memorial Park?

Just a thought
Regards
Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:18 am
Post subject: Re: M4 HVSS Sherman

Yes, from the G104 reference files, this looks like the A1E8 was painted up as Thunderbolt in Vilseck and later at Friedburg (same painted RN).

Neil
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:09 pm
Post subject: Re: M4 HVSS Sherman

CRINGE CRINGE CRINGE! Razz
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MarkHolloway
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Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: M4 HVSS Sherman

Got volute springs? Shocked


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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:45 pm
Post subject: Re: M4 HVSS Sherman

Those have to be for the VVSS, since they are stored vertically (but upside down). Laughing
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:43 pm
Post subject: Re: M4 HVSS Sherman

Hi Folks!

I took a close look all around this one on Monday. No signs of stamped numbers anywhere. This one has a lot of paint on most of it.
Noticed it also has a comb. A bit crushed, but still there.
[img][/img]

Follow up spot report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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TrevorLarkum
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Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:33 am
Post subject: Re: M4 HVSS Sherman

- Neil_Baumgardner
Yes, from the G104 reference files, this looks like the A1E8 was painted up as Thunderbolt in Vilseck and later at Friedburg (same painted RN).

Neil


I'm currently writing up Vilseck and was about to add this Sherman as an 'alumni'. However, having compared photographs I'm now unsure that's it's true.

Does anyone have any good photo's of the M4A1 at Vilseck? I've only found a single photo, near the bottom of this page:

www.hartziel.de/index....seite4.htm

Here's a close up (that's presumably Cobra King in the background):



The differences that concern me:
1. No obvious matching markings on transmission cover
2. The tank in Roy's photos have metal extensions to the front mud flaps, not seen on Vilseck tank
3. Same for small handles on transmission cover
4. Different muzzle brakes
5. Other detail differences (headlights, etc.)

Am I missing something, or are they different tanks?

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Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
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TimRoyall
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Posts: 192
Location: Holland
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:55 am
Post subject: Re: M4 HVSS Sherman

Ah, the comb, that epic discussion brings back memories!
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