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M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:05 pm
Post subject: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

Can anyone identify the exact model?

www.waymarking.com/way...Antonio_TX



Neil
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:35 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

Neil,

M48, or as many say "M48A0" Smile

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:38 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

Just to argue I believe it could possibly be an M48C the mild steel hull version of the M48. I know they existed and I beleive all were non cupola vehicles (Which would make them the visual equivilant of the A0)

I'm also not sure if they were acytually 'mistakes' as the 'Training Tank only' M60s were or if there was some reason that they were purposely produced with mild steel (Once someone told me that the production process was intentionally sped up by not having the Hulls 'hardened' in order to get vehicles out to training units sooner)

But in general I agree with it being an M48 aka M48A0

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binder001
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:42 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

I remember the stories that the M48C was based on tanks with problems in the hull castings. As far as getting vehicles into the training units, the M48 was rushed to production and then hundreds went from the factories right into storage as there were so many problems to iron out in these tanks. I don't remember if it made it into the book, but when I was researching M48 photos for the Squadron book that ended up as Mesko's "M48 In Action" ( I was a good gatherer but lousy at deadlines) I had a shot of about a hundred brand new M48s sitting outside the Ford plant.

Gary
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:29 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

The sign says "M48" so that backs up Joe D's ID.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:30 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

Bob,

I don't believe She could be a "C" model because it appears the drivers hatch has been been equipped with the T41 (M24) IR sight opening. Only intermediate small and late model large hatch hulls had this feature, M48C's were early production.

The ballistic deficiency with the pilot tanks and the first 120 now called M48C's was actually centered on the drivers position around the periscopes, where the required thickness was not to specs. Since this was considered a critical area (frontal arc), all these castings were considered unfit for service and marked Non-Ballistic. The steel used was the same as with the standard castings. Protection every where else would be the same as a standard M48.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:56 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

- MarkHolloway
The sign says "M48" so that backs up Joe D's ID.


Although I agree with this (I wouldn't really argue with Joe on M48/M60 questions) How many times have we all seen signs on monuments be wrong. Mr. Green

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

Dissent and constructive criticism are good,

I welcome it because there is always more info out there. Sometimes I go through my notes from 4-5 years ago and cringe. But with research a lot has been either dis proven or confirmed. Most of the time it just creates a new unanswered question. On rare occasions I get a rude shock when I find out what was an accepted and well known fact published in numerous books turns out to be false.

Here's a good one.

What Models of the US M48 required the commanders weapon to be loaded from the outside?

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:08 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

Joe

Does the M48A5E1 count??? Wink



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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

That's one, although "Only One" and not a group Laughing

I'm looking more along the lines of, "Which of these apply"

M48
M48A1
M48A2 and A2C
M48A3
M48A5

You can throw in the the two M48A4's and M48A5E1 if you like, although only the A5E1 survives to my knowledge.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:40 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

Assuming there is some 'trick' in this question Wink

I know the M48A1, A2, andA3 had a cupola mounted 50 cal. But could it be that there was not enough clearance to LOAD the weapon when buttoned up?

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:27 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

After checking a few things,.....

My guess would be the M48(A0) & the M48A5. Both have external MG mounts for the 'flex' M2 .50cal.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:07 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

- Dontos
After checking a few things,.....

My guess would be the M48(A0) & the M48A5. Both have external MG mounts for the 'flex' M2 .50cal.

Don


That is the obvious answer which makes me wonder what fact he has up his sleeve Mr. Green

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:11 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Patton at Fort Sam Houston thanks to waymarking.com

Actually,

All except the later model M48A5's with the "Israeli" style cupola could be loaded while inside.

The M48 with the Chrysler M1 cupola could be Aimed, Fired, and loaded by the crew while inside the turret. All civilian books I've seen would state the commander would have to expose himself to reload. I believed this to be fact for a long time until I started researching early M48's. Got my hands on a TM from 1954 and was surprised.

First, the Loader would have to open his hatch. Then the TC would take a handle stowed inside the turret and disconnect the .50 cal cradle. Next he'd rotate the cupola until it aligned with a couple of arrows marked inside, positioning it over the Loaders hatch. Then using the same crank, he'd attach it to the cupola pivot crank shaft. Turning this would position the weapon correctly so the loader could reload while inside the turret. Once complete, you'd reverse the process to return the gun into firing status.

Kinda a "Rube Goldberg" invention to me, and I doubt very many crews used this feature in training, but......, the capability was there for a crew to reload the M2 with reasonable protection from small arms. Something the M1 still lacks.

"Now you know the rest of the story" Smile

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