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Friday in Richardson MP
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

- Kurt_Laughlin
Do the turrets have the same P/N cast into them?

KL


Kurt

I did happen to photograph a cast # on the T29 turret roof.

Ser 7
HTNO 2285

Not sure about the T30, but I can check on that on next visit.

Regards
Don
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panamadan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

Was the XM6000T planned to be a scout vehicle?
Dan
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

- panamadan
Was the XM6000T planned to be a scout vehicle?
Dan


Yes, it was one of two proposals for a scout vehicle, the other being the XM800W wheeled version with which it was tested in parallel.
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panamadan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

Doug,
How/Why did this lose out to the Bradley/M3?
Dan
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

- panamadan
Doug,
How/Why did this lose out to the Bradley/M3?
Dan


Basically, it preceded that design and was deemed too dedicated a vehicle (limited role) to divert resources (funding) that could better be applied to a more flexible multi-role vehicle. In essence, a choice had to be made and the more important vehicle designed and produced.

There was considerable sensitivity at the time regarding appropriations for armored vehicles given the legacy of the MBT-70 and, to an extent, the M60A2. Armored vehicle proposals came under more critical scrutiny than had been the case prior to the '70's.
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:03 am
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

All photo's online and entries updated at PTC:

Unique ID 1276: Fort Knox T29

Unique ID 1274: Fort Knox T29E3

Unique ID 1277: Fort Knox T30

I have also added links to ArmorForTheAges to the T29 and T30 entries.

Finally I have added a new entry for the XM800 ARSV-T, with my old photo's and Don's new ones:

Unique ID 1282: Fort Knox XM800

Don, do you have dates (at least estimates) for the transfer of the XM800 and T29E3 (and ideally T34) to RMP?

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:29 am
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

Trevor

Th XM800T, XM803 were moved from around Brooks Field to RMP on 4 Aug 2010.

The T29 & T30 were moved from in front of Marshall Hall to RMP on 4 Aug 2010.

The T29E3, XM1, M48A2C, M113A1, T26E3, M24, M31, M32, M41, and XM551 were moved from Keyes Park area (around the Museum) to RMP, the second week of July 2010.

The T34 Heavy Tank had been in RMP for several years. It was moved due to construction of the buildings around Serio Hall. As I recll it was in 2007 or 2008.

BTW: The photo of the T29E3 being moved was on 6 Aug when it was being relocated within RMP, as a reorganization effort of newly arrived vehicles.

Regards
Don
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panamadan
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:52 am
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

- Doug_Kibbey
- panamadan
Doug,
How/Why did this lose out to the Bradley/M3?
Dan


Basically, it preceded that design and was deemed too dedicated a vehicle (limited role) to divert resources (funding) that could better be applied to a more flexible multi-role vehicle. In essence, a choice had to be made and the more important vehicle designed and produced.

There was considerable sensitivity at the time regarding appropriations for armored vehicles given the legacy of the MBT-70 and, to an extent, the M60A2. Armored vehicle proposals came under more critical scrutiny than had been the case prior to the '70's.

Do you think that this has something to do also with the Cav not having a Branch like Armor or Inf? Dan
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:17 am
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

Dan

I don't think it has to do with that. Remember, technically Cavalry was a branch, generations before tanks were invented.

The problem with the XM800T is its size and limited role in a budget restrictive time.

The Bradley was designed with muli-purpose roles as not only a 'battle taxi' (troop carrier) but also able to provide various mission support roles with onboard weapon systems.

The Scout / Cav side was a secondary benefit / secondary role. It became the best 'bang for the buck' eventhough there were some serious questions during development.

Regards
Don
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panamadan
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

Don,
I don't remeber itthat way-I thought Armor officers were assigned to a Cav unit and sewed on the Cav collar patch, but only received Armor training, not "Cavalry" training. Only being a enlisted man, I never paid that much attention about it in the end.
I always wondered how much "sneaking and peeking" one could do in a vehicle that was taller that a M1...
Dan
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:17 am
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

Yeah, the Cavalry branch was around long before the Armor branch, but it ceased being a branch in its own right around 1950 or so...

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:24 am
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

The Cavalry Branch lost any hope for it's future when the senior officers (including the Chief of Cavalry) insisted that the horse was the central focus of Cavalry and that motorization was NOT to be encouraged

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

- Doug_Kibbey
- Dontos

The XM800 T:

Don
As%20there%20are%20separate%20driver's%20and%20fighting%20compartment%20hatches,%20I%20wonder%20what%20the%20primary%20purpose%20was%20in%20having%20the%20side%20access%20door...might%20it%20have%20been%20something%20intended%20as%20useful%20during%20test%20phase%20only%20and%20not%20to%20be%20included%20on%20production%20vehicles?%20Most%20other%20vehicles%20do%20their%20ammo%20loading%20through%20the%20top%20hatches,%20and%20this%20was%20just%20what,%2020mm?
Doug On%20the%20right%20side%20access%20door%20there%20is%20a%20stowage%20basket%20for%20BII.%20%20This%20door%20is%20welded%20closed%20with%20the%20locking%20handle%20removed.%20%20The%20photo%20is%20taken%20thru%20the%20turret.

I would say the side access doors were for alternate entrance / exit as well as for reloading / uploading ammo.

Needless to say, this vehicle is cramped. It truely is a 'Mini-Bradley', with little or no spare room to speak of.

Regards
Don
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

Here are a few more views of stowage areas.



Regards
Don
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Friday in Richardson MP

- Dontos


Needless to say, this vehicle is cramped. It truely is a 'Mini-Bradley', with little or no spare room to speak of.

Regards
Don


Which is why I never thought it was worth the effort. Basically an M114 with the cross-country mobility kinks worked out.
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