±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 636
Total: 636
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Home
06: Downloads
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Your Account
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Downloads
17: Downloads
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: CPGlang
25: Home
26: Home
27: CPGlang
28: Your Account
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Home
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: CPGlang
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Downloads
72: Community Forums
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Member Screenshots
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Your Account
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Member Screenshots
100: Search
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: CPGlang
133: Home
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Downloads
137: Community Forums
138: Your Account
139: Photo Gallery
140: Home
141: Member Screenshots
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Home
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: CPGlang
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Photo Gallery
160: Downloads
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: News
167: Downloads
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Photo Gallery
178: Downloads
179: Photo Gallery
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Member Screenshots
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Downloads
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: CPGlang
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Statistics
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Photo Gallery
200: Home
201: Your Account
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Your Account
208: Member Screenshots
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Downloads
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Member Screenshots
227: Community Forums
228: News
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Your Account
233: Photo Gallery
234: Home
235: Downloads
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Downloads
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: CPGlang
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Member Screenshots
246: Community Forums
247: Member Screenshots
248: Home
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Photo Gallery
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Home
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: CPGlang
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Photo Gallery
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Member Screenshots
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Downloads
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Home
297: Downloads
298: Your Account
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Your Account
303: Community Forums
304: Home
305: News Archive
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Statistics
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Downloads
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: Search
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Home
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Downloads
344: Downloads
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Home
353: Photo Gallery
354: Photo Gallery
355: Member Screenshots
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Photo Gallery
366: Home
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Member Screenshots
370: Community Forums
371: Member Screenshots
372: Community Forums
373: Photo Gallery
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Member Screenshots
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Statistics
392: Downloads
393: Photo Gallery
394: News
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Downloads
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Home
416: CPGlang
417: Downloads
418: Community Forums
419: Photo Gallery
420: Downloads
421: News Archive
422: Community Forums
423: Your Account
424: Community Forums
425: Your Account
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Home
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Community Forums
438: CPGlang
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Photo Gallery
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Photo Gallery
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Community Forums
455: CPGlang
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: CPGlang
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Photo Gallery
465: Community Forums
466: Home
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Home
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Community Forums
476: News Archive
477: Downloads
478: Community Forums
479: Your Account
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Photo Gallery
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Home
494: Photo Gallery
495: Photo Gallery
496: Home
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Photo Gallery
504: Photo Gallery
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Home
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Photo Gallery
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: CPGlang
527: Photo Gallery
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Photo Gallery
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Member Screenshots
538: Photo Gallery
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Home
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: News Archive
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Photo Gallery
560: Downloads
561: CPGlang
562: Community Forums
563: CPGlang
564: Community Forums
565: Downloads
566: Home
567: News
568: Home
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Your Account
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Home
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Home
593: Member Screenshots
594: Downloads
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Downloads
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Photo Gallery
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Home
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Photo Gallery
615: Community Forums
616: Photo Gallery
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Statistics
620: Photo Gallery
621: Photo Gallery
622: CPGlang
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Home
627: Photo Gallery
628: Home
629: Your Account
630: Community Forums
631: Photo Gallery
632: Home
633: Home
634: Home
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:20 pm
Post subject: Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)

At the first gunnery training in Germany in september 2005 the M865 training round was fired for the first time. This was also that the yearly Bult Francis Cup gunnery contest was done. During this contest 42nd tkbat and 101 tkbat complained about the fumes inside compared to the old DM 38 and DM48 rounds. This was investigated and at the end of 2006 the M865 will be replaced by the M865C3 training round. In our company there were no complains about extra fumes.

Also in the near future the metal MRS mirror will be replaced by a glass one (again, as was on the A4 and A5). This because of the small scratches each time they clean sand etc from it.

regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)

Lesley

Thanks for the Info

BTW: I dug up an old photo I took back in 1989. Thought you might be interested, if I haven't already posted it before.



Enjoy

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)

Hello Dontos,
No, I never saw this photo before, very interesting. Its a A4 from 41 Tankbatallion based at Bergen-Hohne camp.

I presume this picture was taken during the CAT??

Still like this model the most although the armour on the A5 and A6 is better and the turret traverse system is safer on the A5/A6.

The ''old'' A4s always had that distinctive smell of hydraulic oil, the sound of the hydraulic pump, the hand wheels for elevation / azimuth. During one of the Bult Francis Cup contests back in 1997 the electrical system of my A4 failed. To aim the driver turned the hull in the right direction until the gunner saw it in its GAS, a few turns with the handwheels for elev / az and fire. It were hits. Great times!

Thanks!
Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)

Yes it was taken in June 89 at Bergen Range 9.

(my personal 'nightmare' range)

Actually I have a soft spot on my heart for the Dutch tankers. Having competed in the 89 CAT, they really kicked the pants off of 'us' that year.

Personally, I love the look of the A5 & A6. Imposing and a bit futuristic, rally cool!

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:46 am
Post subject: Re: Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)

Lesley,
M865 training rounds have been around quite a while, so there are many variations. At one time the Sabots were bolted together at the base and then they switched to an epoxy (saved money), I never had a problem with fumes, did have a few flarebacks but that's usually caused by bad sealing of the bore evacuator in combination with the combustible cartidge. First thing we check are the seals. We were having a problem 6-7 years back with "Onion Skin" build up in the chamber and residue from the epoxy causing chambering problems. That's with M865. We'd be firing Table 12 and all of a sudden the round would not chamber all the way in and we couldn't get it out. My loader broke the breech handle once trying to beat it in. This was after I did the old grab the cupola ring and kick dance. Very Very frustrating when targets are not being engaged. This problem mostly happened at temps below 20 degrees Farenheit. I here it was solved a while back. I'm curious, why the switch to M865 with Germany right next door? Is it because of the reduced distance it travels with a cone assembly versus fins allowing shorter ranges for training??

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)

Hello Joe,
Now I have to translate it from Dutch to English so maybe I'am not using the correct names but;

There was a possibility with the DM48 that glowing metal residue of the ignition/primer stayed in the barrel and affect the next round loaded. For this reason it was not allowed to have dismounted infantry close by the barrel or in front of a tank with DM48 loaded during live fire exercises. With the M865 this is allowed.

The NL is swapping/changed (correct word?) 13.500 surplus DM33A1 rounds for 13.500 M865 rounds with the US, so we don't pay money for these rounds.
After all, we are dutch so if we can safe some money......

Hope this answers youre question,
Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)

- Dontos
Yes it was taken in June 89 at Bergen Range 9.

(my personal 'nightmare' range)

Actually I have a soft spot on my heart for the Dutch tankers. Having competed in the 89 CAT, they really kicked the pants off of 'us' that year.

Personally, I love the look of the A5 & A6. Imposing and a bit futuristic, rally cool!


I like the box like turret of the A4, in my opinion the A5 had a optically too short barrel compared to the big turret. With the long L55 gun on the A6 the turret / gun combination looks indeed imposing.

About the CAT, it is a shame they don't have this anymore. I'am very curious how an average (not specially selected) NL tankplatoon will do in a international tankgunnery contest. Unfortunately we don't have the time and money for these thing anymore......
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)

Lesley,
Curious why the US would want DM33A1 rounds. I'm not familiar with them. The DM33 is a service/combat round APFSDS, is it a newer version of this? If it's DU then I can understand because most European Nations are going "Green" and getting away from this material. The US demills alot of DU for other countries. If you can get training rounds for rounds you don't need it is indeed wise.
We had a problem with primers years ago. They would stay too hot after firing and pose a hazard if a round broke and spilled the propellant on them. For a while they put a silicon cover over the primer, then they just made the primer with thicker metal, this kept it from getting to hot when fired. The propellant is now also encased in a combustable bag. I have always wondered how other army's experiences with the German 120mm gun has been. I am getting a small idea with your posts.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Minor modifications Leopard 2A6(NL)

Hello Joe,
I really don't know why the US needs those ''old'' rounds, a guess is that they maybe sell it to other countries. It contains no DU, the penetrator is made off Wolframnikkel ijzer (WSMIII WolframSchwerMetall III), tranlated as tungsten nickel iron third generation.

There are the following subvariants of which the DM33A1 the only subvariant is the NL army used. I try to translate is a correct as possible
DM33A1; kunststof centreerband is voorgesneden voor een betere
separatie van de segmenten.

plastic ring which keeps the sabots together is precut, this for a
better seperation of the sabots

DM33A2; zelfde modificatie als de DM33A1 maar nu ook een nieuwe
ontsteking.

same as the DM33A1, but now also with a new primer / ignition.
What type of modification of the primer / ignition I don't know

Since March 2002 Germany has also the DM33A3, what modification this is I don't know

Although just bought by the NL army, the DM53 is already modified to DM53A1 (typedesignation seen in NL army) so it can be used in all climat zones without any special measures.

The only round at the moment we can not use with infantry around is the DM12A1 round which still has the old primer / ignition. But it is already more than 20 years old. The only modification was from DM12 to DM12A1 is that the DM12 is loaded with RDX/TNT and has a sphere shape inert shield and the DM12A1 had a triangle (?) shape inert shield of plastic (correct word?) and is loaded with Hexogene. What the differences are between those two explosives is I don't know. The effect of both rounds is the same.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum