±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: Robski
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6641

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 285
Total: 285
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: CPGlang
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Downloads
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Photo Gallery
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Member Screenshots
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Statistics
34: Community Forums
35: Photo Gallery
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: CPGlang
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Home
60: Downloads
61: Downloads
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: CPGlang
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: CPGlang
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Downloads
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: CPGlang
89: Photo Gallery
90: CPGlang
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: CPGlang
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Member Screenshots
103: Downloads
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Statistics
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Member Screenshots
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Statistics
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Photo Gallery
168: Downloads
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Member Screenshots
172: Your Account
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: News
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: CPGlang
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Your Account
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Statistics
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Downloads
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: CPGlang
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Downloads
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Statistics
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Member Screenshots
259: Downloads
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: CPGlang
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Downloads
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Photo Gallery
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Member Screenshots

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Oz M113 FSV
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dirk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:56 pm
Post subject: Oz M113 FSV

Apart from having a high CG , any other adverse effects from mounting the Saladin turret on the M113 ?

Thanks

Dirk
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

I bet the extra weight requires the suspension to be locked into place like the old M163 Vulcan ADA version. Makes for a bumpier ride.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Coldsteel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:21 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

If the suspension was locked in place it's not mentioned in Military Briefs vol 1 Australian Fire Support Vehicles by John Myszka. I don't think it was, some of the replacement MRVs even had a handhold welded to the back of the turret for the instructors to hang on to as the vehicle rocked due to recoil. The book only says the additional weight reduced the suspension life, reduced freeboard when swimming. In at least one of the photos looks to me like the suspension is deflected. Mind you, with regard to weight, all the hulls for the conversion to an FSV were bought specifically for that purpose, all seem to have the attachment bolts for the addional belly armour, none of the seem to have it fitted, it weighed around 680kg. There was also an extension added to the trim vane to prevent the higher CG from causing the vehicle to "dig in" to the water.

Also mentioned was the difficultly in getting the American and British eletrical systems to work together.

Ultimately in Vietnam they proved reliable and quick to respond when required.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:45 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Hi Sabot! Hi Folks!

- Sabot
I bet the extra weight requires the suspension to be locked into place like the old M163 Vulcan ADA version. Makes for a bumpier ride.


That lock out system didn't work that way. It was only locked when the vehicle was stopped. Moving the vehicle with the locks extended would damage the system.

When I was stationed at Hunter Liggett Military Reservation I was in a TDA armored company which conducted all kinds of different tests. One of the tests was for a ground based lazer target designator system for Hellfire missiles. The target unit encluded four Vulcan SPs. During one of the tests, a driver forgot to unlock the suspension after an engagement. That vehicle ended up dead lined until ever road arm and every lock out pin housing assemble was removed. I don't know just what parts were damaged and had to be replaced, but that vehicle sat in our motor pool for a couple of weeks with nothing but sprockets and idler wheels on the hull.

During the day, that lazer system was great. However when we tried the same sets of tests during the night, any IR scope or Starlight scope could pick up the light beam and the OpFor units would know where the lazer team was set up.

Some of my very old history.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

That TDA Armored Company had
five platoons of five M-60A1 tanks per, with only three man crews.
one scout platoon with 12xM-113A1s with only two men per vehicle.
The recovery section had three M-88 VTRs.
The unit was formed by combining an Armored Cav Troop with a tank company, that is how we ended up with three M-88s.
Not counting the machine guns for the tanks and APCs, the only other weapons in the company arms room were two .45 cal pistols. One for the payroll officer and one for his guard.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:52 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Hi Coldsteel! Hi Folks!

- Coldsteel

There was also an extension added to the trim vane to prevent the higher CG from causing the vehicle to "dig in" to the water.


That extension on the top of the trim vane was part of the A1 upgrade to the basic vehicle.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:23 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Dirk

While the M113 FSV was still 'amphibious' with the extended trim vane (only fitted to FSVs and not other M113A1s), rotating the turret while afloat caused a trials vehicle to literally turn turtle.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:21 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Hi David! Hi Folks!

- David_Clark

While the M113 FSV was still 'amphibious' with the extended trim vane (only fitted to FSVs and not other M113A1s), rotating the turret while afloat caused a trials vehicle to literally turn turtle.
David


Right you are Sir!

I am not sure that "extended" addition would be classified as an extention. After searching around for some photos of a FSV, I saw what you all were talking about. What I though was called a floatation pod.

www.armouredengineer.f...113mrv.htm

On the original M113, the top edge of the trim vane had a metal edge that extended about one inch above the edge of the plywood. One the A1's that extention was extended to about four inchs above the top edge of the plywood. That was the item I was thinking about when I read the term 'extended trim vane'.

This was another 'alartness test' to see if any one was paying attention to my flub up.
David passed the test!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dirk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Thanks all for the input.

The Tamiya M113 FSV kit looks appealling ..................

How can one say no to a Tamiya and a M113 kit Wink

Almost have all the 1/35 M113 kits .. Now to start building them Cool

Cheers & again thanks

Dirk
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1438
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- Dirk

Almost have all the 1/35 M113 kits .. Now to start building them Cool
Dirk


Ah But are you going to build all 287 variants of the M113?

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6255
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- JimWeb
- Dirk

Almost have all the 1/35 M113 kits .. Now to start building them Cool
Dirk


Ah But are you going to build all 287 variants of the M113?

Cool


...plus the "Gavin" variants with particle beam weapons, "Davey Crocketts", rail guns, and Phase Plasma Rifles in the 40W range?

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- JG300-Ascout

...plus the "Gavin" variants with particle beam weapons, "Davey Crocketts", rail guns, and Phase Plasma Rifles in the 40W range?


I see SOMEONE is more than familiar with Terminator... Cool

" AH-LLL BE BACH "!! Shocked Mr. Green

Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Coldsteel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:43 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi David! Hi Folks!
I am not sure that "extended" addition would be classified as an extention. After searching around for some photos of a FSV, I saw what you all were talking about. What I though was called a floatation pod.

www.armouredengineer.f...113mrv.htm

On the original M113, the top edge of the trim vane had a metal edge that extended about one inch above the edge of the plywood. One the A1's that extention was extended to about four inchs above the top edge of the plywood. That was the item I was thinking about when I read the term 'extended trim vane'.


Actually you might still be right, that link shows pictures of the FSV replacement, the Scorpion turreted Medium Reconnaissance Vehicle. The FSV has a Saladin turret and no flotation pods.

I can't find any pictures on the net that show the FSV with the proper vane on it. It looks like a standard M113 vane with the hollow metal extension and on top of that a seperate hinged section that doesn't run the full length of the vane in order to clear the left hand head light group. I've no idea is this is the A1 modification you mentioned, but as far as Australian M113s go seems to be FSV specific.
Back to top
View user's profile
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:54 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- Roy_A_Lingle
After searching around for some photos of a FSV, I saw what you all were talking about. What I though was called a floatation pod.


Roy

The M113 FSVs had a hinged extension across the top of the trim vane (except for the left side where it would have fouled the light assembly).

The M113 MRV (Scorpion turret) used the floatation pods that I think were used on heavier M113 variants.

There's examples of both at the RAAC museum but the online photographs don't show the trim vane on the FSV:

www.armytankmuseum.com.au/i-vd.htm

The best I can do at short notice is a photo of a model of a M113 FSV on the Sentinel site:

www.mheaust.com.au/Aus.../fsvb6.jpg

By the way, and coming back to the original question, the RAAC museum description of the FSV states: "The FSV concept was a success but it was not without problems. The extra weight of the Turret detracted from the amphibious performance, led to a slight decrease in the vehicle's performance generally, and reduced the life on some suspension components."

Regards

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:22 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Hi David! Hi Folks!

- David_Clark

The M113 FSVs had a hinged extension across the top of the trim vane (except for the left side where it would have fouled the light assembly).


OK, now that I am on the CORRECT vehicle, I see what your are talking about.

www.armouredengineer.f...113fsv.htm

In the top photo, I can see the extention your have been trying to tell me about. That is an extention mounted on top of the 'A1' extention that I was confused over. I have never noticed the second extention before.

- David_Clark

"The FSV concept was a success but it was not without problems. The extra weight of the Turret detracted from the amphibious performance, led to a slight decrease in the vehicle's performance generally, and reduced the life on some suspension components."


The reduced life of some suspension items doesn't suprise me. If I remember right, the cargo capacity of a M113A1 was some where between 1,200 to 1,500 pounds. I don't know the weight of a Saladin turret, but I would bet that with a load of ammo, the FSV was over the limit. Then what we did in Vietnam was way passed the limit and the vehicle did just fine. I remember I tried to add up all the weight I had inside Boom-Boom. I don't remember the total. I do remember however that the weight of .50 cal ammo alone was over the limit. Then on top of that we would tow a Sheridan with a tow hook that was rated at 7.5 tons!

Sorry about the confuzion!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dirk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- JG300-Ascout

...plus the "Gavin" variants with particle beam weapons, "Davey Crocketts", rail guns, and Phase Plasma Rifles in the 40W range?


Not forgetting the Airborne Gavin and also the Gavin with the 8 inch gun ..... Cool

Dirk
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum