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Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:23 am
Post subject: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Going to and from AMPS I tracked down a few tank serials that I hadn't seen before:

Jarretsville MD; AL or VFW - M60A1 1628 on tow lug, 6614 on upper engine deck
Etters PA; VFW post 567 - Their M46 has been replaced by an M60A3 . . . JJ02CT, 3314A
Central City PA; Park - M60A3 JJ051X, 3048A
Stoystown PA; VFW 257 by covered bridge - M60A3 JJ0515, 3022A, X'd out deck serial 3609. This vehicle had glaccis and bow fittings - mine roller? Also, UH-1H 66-16993
Boswell PA; AL post 461 - Two M5 3-inch AT guns, S/N 262 and 370

KL
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Kurt, thanks for the info. We missed you on Saturday.

Neil
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Kurt,
Thanks for all the serial/registration numbers.

About the Stoystown M60A3, Yes, it was modified to take the MCR (Mine Clearing Roller). Not very many of those made and this is the only one I know of on display. The fittings had to be welded to the hull in order to use the kit, so once it was done that tank was always going to carry the roller. The M1's use a "BRA" the fits over the hull so any tank could be used. Below is a picture from the "Tanks for the Memories" Site.



About the M60A1 in Jarretsville MD, you didn't accidentally mix the tow lug and rear deck numbers up by any chance? 1628 would either be an M60A0 or a new Detroit M60A3. 6614 corresponds to an M60A1 IR Generation 4 hull tank. Below is a picture of it off the same site as the last.



If you look this A1 was retired before it was converted to "Passive" Standards and still retains the search light stowage brackets on the rear.

Joe D
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:17 am
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Joe:

I checked my notes and have it listed as:
75 on glacis
1628 on lug
6614 on upper engine deck
Union [U-in-Keystone] 131 turret

A couple of things I noted at the time - No registration stamping, no A or M suffix on the lug, and 6614 was only on the upper deck piece, there was nothing on the flat just below. In fact, when I saw the difference in lug and deck numbers I thought WTF? and stepped back to notice that there was no shroud on the gun, making it an M60A1.

I have all around pictures of all of these tanks. If there are particular views that would be helpful in ID'ing them, let me know.

KL
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Kurt,

WTF indeed. Something ain't right about that tank. Do you have a good picture of the driver's hatch? That would help explain some things if I can see it. It's a Gen 4 hull from what I can tell. 1628 with or without an A would make it an A3 normally. Got a mystery here. Also if possible a picture of the turret top rear behind the TC's and Loader's hatch would also help.

Thanks,
Joe D
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Well here's a picture of the turret top but I don't think it will give you the detail you need Laughing
maps.google.com/maps?f...2&t=h&om=1

I'll put it on the list of ones to check out if I get in the neighborhood but it's sort of out of the way for most of my travels (not on a direct route anywhere)

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Joe:

Here's a link to the photos I took, if that helps.

i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4930.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4931.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4932.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4933.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4934.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4935.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4936.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4937.jpg


KL
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Kurt,
Wow, an unmolested M60A1 IR. Driver's hatch is for the old M24 IR night sight, no bilge pump kit installed (Common on M60, M60A2, and early to mid M60A1's), original bore evacuator (no drain plug), and searchlight stowage bracket. Some how this one escaped upgrade to RISE/Passive A1 or conversion to A3. Very very similar to my first M60A1 I was on at Fort Riley. All the pictures support a serial number of 6614. You wouldn't happen to have a picture of the tow lug with 1628 on it ? Still scratching my head here Confused . BTW, nice pictures, do you have a side 3/4 view of the Etters and Central City tanks. I'd like to know what type hull and turret they have.

Bob,
Maybe you need a KH-11 satelite to improve your top view Razz . The resolution just isn't up to SAC/NSA/OGA standards (SR-71 maybe another option)

Joe D
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:30 am
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Joe:

Sorry, no lug photos. . . I'm trying to get those now.

Here are links to photos:

Central City (3048A)
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4978.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4980.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4981.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4982.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4983.jpg

Stoystown (3022A)
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4985.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4986.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4987.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4989.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4984.jpg


Etters (3314A)
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4974.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4975.jpg
i75.photobucket.com/al...0_4976.jpg

BTW, what are the "essential" photos to take (besides the typical four views, R/N, lug, and deck stamping) to allow determination of the M60 type?

KL
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:41 am
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

JoeD is probably the best person to answer that but I'll put in my 2 cents worth

I've found that registration/serial numbers are sometimes stamped into the front hull near the left headlight. There is also some variation in the lifting points on hull sides and in the armor in the cheeks of the turret but these features usually show up in the standard shots. Same goes with the air cleaners and the intercom box that is sometimes on the right rear fender. Oh There are differences in the Bustle rack depending on how the IR searchlight stowage was 'cleaned up'

By the way there do not appear to be any lifting points on the hull of the Stoystown M60. JoeD is that unusual?

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

Hi Bob, Kurt, everyone,
Kurt, give me a couple days and I can post a few pictures showing some things to look for. A while back I had posted a few guides on how to ID the 4 type hulls (my own ID system) by Generations and also a picture showing the difference between the early and later A1/A3 turrets (with or w/o chin armor). Maybe Bob can repost them . I can't post pics right now. I can also make a few guides showing the differences between early and late A3 turrets, rebuilds etc. Keep in mind that most A3's were rebuilds and many of the components were culled from different A1's to make some. Many GEN 4 hulls out there with pre chin armor turrets and even M60A0 cupolas.
Bob, the Stoystown tank is a Generation 2 hull, it is equipped with the lighter verticle lifting eyes, 3 per side. You can see them just above the numbers two and four road arms and just in front of the final drive housing in front of the sprocket. They are the same as on M60A0's. The initial M60A1 batch had them up to SN 5025. After that they went to the heavier horizontal ones.

Joe D
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Serials 'n' stuff from this weekend

- Joe_D
Hi Bob, Kurt, everyone,
Kurt, give me a couple days and I can post a few pictures showing some things to look for. A while back I had posted a few guides on how to ID the 4 type hulls (my own ID system) by Generations and also a picture showing the difference between the early and later A1/A3 turrets (with or w/o chin armor). Maybe Bob can repost them . I can't post pics right now.


here is a link back to the 'Roebling M60' thread where Joe talked about the hull differences and Chin armor
www.com-central.net/in...amp;t=6286


I can also make a few guides showing the differences between early and late A3 turrets, rebuilds etc. Keep in mind that most A3's were rebuilds and many of the components were culled from different A1's to make some. Many GEN 4 hulls out there with pre chin armor turrets and even M60A0 cupolas.
Bob, the Stoystown tank is a Generation 2 hull, it is equipped with the lighter verticle lifting eyes, 3 per side. You can see them just above the numbers two and four road arms and just in front of the final drive housing in front of the sprocket. They are the same as on M60A0's. The initial M60A1 batch had them up to SN 5025. After that they went to the heavier horizontal ones.

Joe D


Ahh!! Now I see them!

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