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Good news about Panther N
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:33 am
Post subject: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

You've probably already heard of this one...





It is now exposed in Auto + Technik Museum at Sinsheim (Germany) :





http://www.panther1944.de/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=709&start=0

I'll go there in few weeks to get my own shots !!

Pierre-Olivier

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Last edited by the_shadock on Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:42 am
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

Good news indeed, many players have been bidding for it. Wow ... that's some serious internal explosion damage. No wonder we never saw pictures of the left side and front before, the damage is even more excessive than I predicted from the pictures available earlier. I wonder what plans they have for it, restoration is going to take some doing. If you ask me I think it looks good as it is and could be left that way, all original damage and all. Wow ...

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Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:16 am
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

I think the same, let the Panther as it is with the original damages. It's even better if they left the tank in its original paint and markings, that's so uncommon nowadays !!... But I suspect the Sinsheim Museum to be willing to take some parts from this one to restore their other one to running condition...

P-O

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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

The more I look at it the more I like it. I really hope that they leave it as it is.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

I agree,

It's one thing to restore an old target wreck or a post war modified vehicle, but this one is pretty much what she was after she was destroyed. She looks great displayed just the way she is. Restoration would be much like someone trying to restore a mummy to what it looked like before death. Hopefully there are some very high quality pictures taken of her the way she is now before they decide to restore or cannibalize her. Would make a nice print.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:56 am
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

- Joe_D
I agree,

It's one thing to restore an old target wreck or a post war modified vehicle, but this one is pretty much what she was after she was destroyed. She looks great displayed just the way she is. Restoration would be much like someone trying to restore a mummy to what it looked like before death. Hopefully there are some very high quality pictures taken of her the way she is now before they decide to restore or cannibalize her. Would make a nice print.

Joe D


It is a profound image. I shuttered at first sight of 'her'. Having an appreciation for the destructive power, which must have caused such damage.

It is mute testimony to the mortality of what some had believed was indestructable.

Cannabalizing or restoration would infact be a pity. She belongs in a museum. Too bad. Doomed to disappear....??

Regards
Don
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piney
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:10 am
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

I agree, I think it makes a stunning display as it sits. It would be a crime to modify or "restore" this piece of history.

Jeff Lewis
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JWB2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:44 am
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

Museums exist to display artifacts "as is". Restorations simply create bastards made up of a hodge podge fakery.
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

From the limited research I've done, given the location of the wreck when found, this Panther Ausf. A was most likely lost when the 47th Panzerkorps tried to reach and relieve the Cherkassy/Korsun pocket in Feb. 1944.

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

We had a discussion about a Stug III in the Canadian War Museum that is displayed as if knocked out and not an immaculate restoration.
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piney
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:23 am
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

This is what could happen

here is Sinsheim's JU-88 "restored" from a recovered wreck


What it should look like


from a different angle, Sinsheim's



the real deal



In general it looks like an 88, but the contours of the nose area are all wrong The prop spinners and cowlings are wrong also. If they can't do a much better job then that on the Panther they ought to kep their paws off it. My 2 cents

Jeff Lewis


Last edited by piney on Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Uhu_Fledermaus
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:09 am
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

fully agree with you piney!

either do it well or leave it.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

I agree, leave it as it...

Maybe Jens (who is absent for the moment) or Rikard, or P-O (whoever is fluent em Deutch) would care to draft a petition on behalf of the forum or the "AFV Association" to express this sentiment?

To whom should it be directed, who will write it?.... and a list of real names for the author to append would be nice.

I think Jens is the obvious choice, since he's a native and has connections. How long was he to be gone?
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piney
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

If we can come up with it I will be happy to sign

Jeff Lewis
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Good news about Panther N° 243 found in Ukraine

I should be able to go to this museum and give them the petiton from hand to hand since it's not far from where I live, but my level in German is very low...
I think that I could manage to ask for some help to a friend who knows the owner of the museum, I'll see with him if he would like to relieve our opinion on this subject.

P-O

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Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
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