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Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:19 am
Post subject: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I was at the Washington Armor Club (modelers) meeting yesterday and mentioned the M5 Stuart wreck at the Patuxent Wildlife Research Refuge (which was formerly a Fort Meade target range) - when one of the guys there mentioned that there were also four British Crusader wrecks located there.

Accordingly, Steve Carter just provided the below pictures. Can anyone tell that these are Crusaders? Its close enough that I'm tempted to make a trip sometime soon...

I cant tell if these are the same or different ones. The second one looks to be upside down? Isnt that a Christie suspension arm in the foreground?





Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

The two photos don't show the same tank hull, but the two are upside down. f you closely compare the 2 hulls, they are very similar but have some differences. I can't tell for sure if these are Crusaders or not..
(And there is a man on the right side of the 1st photo, quite well hidden..)

P-O

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fitzday
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

I think those are the same hull, just different angles. If you look close the same busted up second roadwheel is apparent in each picture. And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. If I'm not mistaken, Crusaders had 5 didn't they? Anybody have any idea what Crusaders would be doing in MD?
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Yep, the Crusader was the first British "Christie Cruiser" to have five roadwheels.

I'm not all that surprised there are/were Crusaders in Maryland, but a little surprised they were at Fort Meade rather than APG. I highly suspect they were Reverse Lend-Lease...

The Ordnance Museum already has one Crusader Mk III, and had a Crusader Mk IICS (close support variant) at one point... But I dont have any records for another 3 missing Crusaders... Its possible that Jarret didnt acquire these for the museum since he already had two and therefore they went straight to the ranges at Meade.

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

BTW, Bob, I wont be able to make it up for your tour this weekend as I have friends in town - but I think perhaps we should plan on a huntin' trip to Laurel sometime in the near future Wink

Neil
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tankbarrell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

[quote="fitzday"]I think those are the same hull, just different angles.

I agree with that.

And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. quote]

They are not torsion bars. Christie suspension used large springs between the inner and outer hulls.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:50 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Joe DeMarco sent me these pictures yesterday - I think this fairly concretely answers the question...





He says there were five Crusaders at the research refuge, but warned that they warn you to stay on the trails & sign a waiver lest you step on some unexploded ordnance Surprised

Neil
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

SALVAGE!!!

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

Joe said he told Charles Lemmons with the Patton Museum about them some years ago. Joe thought there was enough to probably put together one Crusader. He also said that its possible they've already been moved by one of the "remediation teams."

Neil
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longo213
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I don't really like to open a two years old thread but anytime I'm listing thru Surviving Cruiser tank list I get really curious what happened to those five Crusaders. Any news from Patton museum about them?
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:15 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

No Crusaders here. With the armor element moving, its very doubtful any effort has been or will be made.

Regards
Don
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longo213
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

It would be really sad if they ended up in scrap...
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

They will most likely continue to sit and decay... Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone...

Neil
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone..


Who should do the effort?

I would be ready to come in the US and cut down some trees to remove them from there !!!

Pierre-Olivier

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

You'd need lots of government approvals, money, equipment, etc. They're currently on old target ranges, with potentially unexploded ordnance. Needless to say they advise you stay on the trails - which are presumably clear of any UXO

Neil
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