±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 777
Total: 777
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Statistics
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Statistics
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Your Account
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Your Account
44: Member Screenshots
45: Home
46: Home
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Statistics
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Home
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Downloads
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Your Account
73: Photo Gallery
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Downloads
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Statistics
91: Downloads
92: Home
93: Downloads
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Downloads
107: Downloads
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Member Screenshots
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Statistics
118: Statistics
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Member Screenshots
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Your Account
128: Downloads
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Home
135: Home
136: Your Account
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Photo Gallery
140: CPGlang
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: News
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Downloads
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Home
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Downloads
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: News Archive
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Downloads
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Photo Gallery
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: CPGlang
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: CPGlang
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Downloads
194: Photo Gallery
195: Downloads
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Home
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Photo Gallery
229: Photo Gallery
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: News
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Your Account
237: Community Forums
238: Statistics
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: News
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Photo Gallery
250: Downloads
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: CPGlang
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Home
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Search
279: Photo Gallery
280: Photo Gallery
281: Home
282: Downloads
283: Downloads
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Member Screenshots
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: CPGlang
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Statistics
300: Community Forums
301: Downloads
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Home
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Downloads
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Home
322: Your Account
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: News
336: News
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Photo Gallery
343: Community Forums
344: Member Screenshots
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Downloads
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Home
360: Home
361: Downloads
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Home
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: Community Forums
389: Member Screenshots
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Member Screenshots
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Photo Gallery
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: CPGlang
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Photo Gallery
425: Photo Gallery
426: Home
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Downloads
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Home
438: Community Forums
439: Downloads
440: Community Forums
441: Home
442: Community Forums
443: CPGlang
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Home
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Downloads
468: Community Forums
469: Home
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Downloads
483: Photo Gallery
484: News Archive
485: Community Forums
486: Member Screenshots
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Downloads
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Statistics
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: CPGlang
530: Community Forums
531: Statistics
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Member Screenshots
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Member Screenshots
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Photo Gallery
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Member Screenshots
554: Community Forums
555: Photo Gallery
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Home
560: Home
561: Community Forums
562: Your Account
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Home
568: Home
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Photo Gallery
575: Home
576: Community Forums
577: CPGlang
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Downloads
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Photo Gallery
585: Member Screenshots
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Member Screenshots
589: Community Forums
590: Photo Gallery
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Photo Gallery
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Home
602: Member Screenshots
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Downloads
609: Your Account
610: Photo Gallery
611: Home
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Home
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Downloads
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Home
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Photo Gallery
632: Photo Gallery
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Statistics
636: Community Forums
637: Photo Gallery
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Photo Gallery
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Photo Gallery
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Photo Gallery
647: Community Forums
648: Photo Gallery
649: Community Forums
650: Home
651: Photo Gallery
652: Photo Gallery
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Member Screenshots
656: Home
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Statistics
660: Your Account
661: Community Forums
662: Downloads
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Home
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Home
670: Photo Gallery
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Home
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Your Account
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Statistics
682: Community Forums
683: News
684: Community Forums
685: Your Account
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Home
690: Photo Gallery
691: Photo Gallery
692: Community Forums
693: Downloads
694: Downloads
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Home
698: Photo Gallery
699: Community Forums
700: Home
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Photo Gallery
705: Home
706: Community Forums
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Home
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Downloads
717: Community Forums
718: Home
719: Community Forums
720: Home
721: Community Forums
722: Home
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Home
729: Home
730: Community Forums
731: Downloads
732: Home
733: Photo Gallery
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Photo Gallery
738: Photo Gallery
739: Photo Gallery
740: Community Forums
741: Photo Gallery
742: Photo Gallery
743: Community Forums
744: Community Forums
745: Home
746: Home
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Community Forums
750: Photo Gallery
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: Statistics
754: Home
755: Community Forums
756: Community Forums
757: Home
758: Community Forums
759: Community Forums
760: Community Forums
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: Community Forums
764: Community Forums
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Community Forums
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Home
772: Community Forums
773: CPGlang
774: Community Forums
775: Home
776: Community Forums
777: News

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:19 am
Post subject: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I was at the Washington Armor Club (modelers) meeting yesterday and mentioned the M5 Stuart wreck at the Patuxent Wildlife Research Refuge (which was formerly a Fort Meade target range) - when one of the guys there mentioned that there were also four British Crusader wrecks located there.

Accordingly, Steve Carter just provided the below pictures. Can anyone tell that these are Crusaders? Its close enough that I'm tempted to make a trip sometime soon...

I cant tell if these are the same or different ones. The second one looks to be upside down? Isnt that a Christie suspension arm in the foreground?





Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

The two photos don't show the same tank hull, but the two are upside down. f you closely compare the 2 hulls, they are very similar but have some differences. I can't tell for sure if these are Crusaders or not..
(And there is a man on the right side of the 1st photo, quite well hidden..)

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
fitzday
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

I think those are the same hull, just different angles. If you look close the same busted up second roadwheel is apparent in each picture. And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. If I'm not mistaken, Crusaders had 5 didn't they? Anybody have any idea what Crusaders would be doing in MD?
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Yep, the Crusader was the first British "Christie Cruiser" to have five roadwheels.

I'm not all that surprised there are/were Crusaders in Maryland, but a little surprised they were at Fort Meade rather than APG. I highly suspect they were Reverse Lend-Lease...

The Ordnance Museum already has one Crusader Mk III, and had a Crusader Mk IICS (close support variant) at one point... But I dont have any records for another 3 missing Crusaders... Its possible that Jarret didnt acquire these for the museum since he already had two and therefore they went straight to the ranges at Meade.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

BTW, Bob, I wont be able to make it up for your tour this weekend as I have friends in town - but I think perhaps we should plan on a huntin' trip to Laurel sometime in the near future Wink

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
tankbarrell
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

[quote="fitzday"]I think those are the same hull, just different angles.

I agree with that.

And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. quote]

They are not torsion bars. Christie suspension used large springs between the inner and outer hulls.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:50 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Joe DeMarco sent me these pictures yesterday - I think this fairly concretely answers the question...





He says there were five Crusaders at the research refuge, but warned that they warn you to stay on the trails & sign a waiver lest you step on some unexploded ordnance Surprised

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

SALVAGE!!!

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

Joe said he told Charles Lemmons with the Patton Museum about them some years ago. Joe thought there was enough to probably put together one Crusader. He also said that its possible they've already been moved by one of the "remediation teams."

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
longo213
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 16, 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I don't really like to open a two years old thread but anytime I'm listing thru Surviving Cruiser tank list I get really curious what happened to those five Crusaders. Any news from Patton museum about them?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:15 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

No Crusaders here. With the armor element moving, its very doubtful any effort has been or will be made.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
longo213
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 16, 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

It would be really sad if they ended up in scrap...
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

They will most likely continue to sit and decay... Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone..


Who should do the effort?

I would be ready to come in the US and cut down some trees to remove them from there !!!

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

You'd need lots of government approvals, money, equipment, etc. They're currently on old target ranges, with potentially unexploded ordnance. Needless to say they advise you stay on the trails - which are presumably clear of any UXO

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum