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Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it happen?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Tanklord
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it hap

Wink German Wonder Weapon: Thor's Hammer Wink Rolling Eyes Just kidding guys. This has been an interesting thread!

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:51 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it happen?

Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

- SFC_Jeff_Button


....there is a hollow opening in the rear of each upper rear deck area, one of which appears ripped open,....


Those openning are for the groser (sp-?) storage compartments. The vent covers or cover plates are missing. I wonder if the ripped one was caused by someone hooking onto the hull at that openning and trying to tow or lift the vehicle?

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:12 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it happen?

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

Has anyone else noticed the side of the turret? There is something that looks a bit like a plug or possible the rear end of projectile sticking out of it.

Interesting.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Yea, I noticed that. Wish I had a clearer shot of it

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:28 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it happen?

Hi Folks!

There is one photo of the underside of the sponson of that damaged Sherman that clearly shows the weld seam running along the bottom edge of the side panel. Clearly that is the original armored plate with dents in it.

Has anyone else noticed the side of the turret? There is something that looks a bit like a plug or possible the rear end of projectile sticking out of it.

Interesting.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:51 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it hap

More or less complete walk-arounds of the M4A2 at Poklonnaya Gora, Moscow. This one also has dents in the armour, but only on the left side :

http://www.tanxheaven.com/nic/sherman05/shermannic.htm

h
tanksinmoscow.com/Pokl...4A2_01.htm

Hope this helps

P-O

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Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates


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Claymore
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:31 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it happen?

T28E4: Chill a bit! I hadn't seen the postings on Missing-Lynx. It was only a suggestion. Having seen the photos of the sherman it has been restored from a wreck, look at the engine deck! But without getting to examine the vehicle guess we'll never know.
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it hap

Here is the one under the tree...


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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:15 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it hap

Where's Hanno? He's got to have a theory!

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T26E4
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:23 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it happen?

Claymore: If you note, I've cited TWO separate tanks with the same indentations. Over on ML, the "replaced side walls" theory has been bandied about as well. However, I tend to doubt it because if you look carefully at the dented walls' weld seams, they look intact and there's no indication of a replacement milder steel sidewall.

Also I've seen very smooth hull walls. Look at this post:

www.network54.com/Foru...179785806/

See the M4A3? Smooth too.
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Claymore
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:44 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it hap

Guys, I think Ive figured it out. This sherman looks like it's been restored from a wreck. Could it be that the side armour was missing/damaged and has been replaced with mild steel or aluminium cut to shape and welded in place. It would be very easy to damage or dent. The texture of the surface does not look like any rolled armour plate i've ever seen, but it does look like a sheet of aluminium.
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piney
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:12 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it happen?

just thinking out loud here but the dents do seem very regular, I'm wondering if it might have been off loaded with some sort of a claw device rather then cables? sort of like a crane vending machine but waay bigger.

Jeff Lewis
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it hap

- Sabot
Lent it to the Mrs.?


LOL

Cool

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it happen?

I remember the thread on the old board also. If I remember correctly we had pictures of more than one with similar damage. I can think of some other scenarios during shipment that could cause such damage.

An improperly secured tank hitting other heavy cargo (Such as large steel plates being shipped) or the other cargo shifting and hitting a properly secured tank (anything very heavy with sharp edges) A railroad derailment which sent the tank down an embankment into large boulders seems a possibility.

Of course the damage could have occured later in the tanks life such as being pushed out of the way after being damaged and having other equipment pushed into it but I vaguely remember pictures of tanks being unloaded with similar damage at a port

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Sabot
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:01 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it happen?

Lent it to the Mrs.?

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:27 am
Post subject: Re: Dented and buckled armor on M4a2 Sherman: how did it hap

- Roy_A_Lingle

I have trouble seeing a collision takening place with enough force to damage armored plate like, but yet the tank didn't punch through the side of a liberty ship. Liberty ships had a problem with hulls that were too weak to withstand heavy storms. A number of them broke in half and sank because of that weakness.


It was the welded versions using the North Atlantic run to Murmansk that had the problem according to my tame ship guy Gibbo... if a crack started on a welded version there was nothing to stop it. The riveted versions were okay in the cold that far north (cracks stopped at the edge of a plate) so they were mainly used on that run... The technical expression for 'things inside the hull' I was looking for was 'frames' apparently...

There is an image floating around of a Sherman being unloaded in Murmansk with similar dents... I'll get Gibbo to see if he can find it as he told me about it.

I'm almost sure we had another image of similar damage caused to a Sherman on the old board... It was parked under a tree IIRC?

Cool

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