±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 693
Total: 693
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Statistics
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Contact
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Downloads
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Treasury
58: Community Forums
59: Your Account
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Photo Gallery
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Your Account
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Your Account
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: CPGlang
78: Photo Gallery
79: Home
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Downloads
87: Home
88: Home
89: Photo Gallery
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Downloads
93: Photo Gallery
94: Photo Gallery
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Downloads
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Downloads
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Photo Gallery
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Downloads
141: News
142: Downloads
143: Your Account
144: Downloads
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: CPGlang
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Your Account
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: News
163: Community Forums
164: CPGlang
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Member Screenshots
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: CPGlang
172: Photo Gallery
173: Photo Gallery
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Home
178: Home
179: Downloads
180: Statistics
181: Statistics
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Member Screenshots
186: Member Screenshots
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Downloads
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Photo Gallery
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Downloads
230: Statistics
231: Community Forums
232: Member Screenshots
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: Photo Gallery
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Downloads
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: News Archive
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Photo Gallery
270: Home
271: News Archive
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Downloads
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: News Archive
278: Home
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Downloads
282: Home
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Downloads
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Your Account
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: News
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Your Account
307: Photo Gallery
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: News
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Downloads
329: Community Forums
330: News
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Member Screenshots
336: Photo Gallery
337: Search
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Downloads
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Downloads
349: Home
350: Downloads
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: CPGlang
359: Photo Gallery
360: Home
361: Home
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Photo Gallery
366: CPGlang
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: News
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Downloads
384: Community Forums
385: Downloads
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: Photo Gallery
389: Photo Gallery
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Member Screenshots
398: Photo Gallery
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: CPGlang
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Member Screenshots
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Member Screenshots
423: News Archive
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Your Account
427: Community Forums
428: Home
429: Member Screenshots
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Member Screenshots
436: Community Forums
437: CPGlang
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Home
442: Downloads
443: Statistics
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Home
448: Community Forums
449: CPGlang
450: Community Forums
451: CPGlang
452: Home
453: Photo Gallery
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: CPGlang
458: Community Forums
459: CPGlang
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Photo Gallery
463: Downloads
464: Downloads
465: Photo Gallery
466: Community Forums
467: Downloads
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Photo Gallery
471: Home
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Member Screenshots
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Home
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: Community Forums
488: Photo Gallery
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: CPGlang
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: CPGlang
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Home
506: Your Account
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: News Archive
511: Community Forums
512: Downloads
513: Your Account
514: Community Forums
515: Downloads
516: Home
517: Community Forums
518: Member Screenshots
519: Home
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Home
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Photo Gallery
528: Community Forums
529: Photo Gallery
530: Photo Gallery
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Home
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Home
541: Member Screenshots
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Home
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Photo Gallery
557: Community Forums
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: CPGlang
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Home
564: Downloads
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Member Screenshots
568: Community Forums
569: Your Account
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Member Screenshots
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: CPGlang
577: Community Forums
578: Downloads
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Home
583: Home
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Member Screenshots
588: Photo Gallery
589: Member Screenshots
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Supporters
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Photo Gallery
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Your Account
601: Home
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Photo Gallery
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Member Screenshots
609: CPGlang
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery
612: Photo Gallery
613: News Archive
614: Photo Gallery
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Home
619: Home
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Photo Gallery
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Photo Gallery
626: Photo Gallery
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Your Account
630: Photo Gallery
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Member Screenshots
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Photo Gallery
637: Photo Gallery
638: Your Account
639: Photo Gallery
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Photo Gallery
644: Photo Gallery
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Home
655: Community Forums
656: Home
657: Photo Gallery
658: Community Forums
659: Photo Gallery
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Photo Gallery
665: Photo Gallery
666: Community Forums
667: Member Screenshots
668: Community Forums
669: Home
670: CPGlang
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Downloads
677: Photo Gallery
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Your Account
682: Photo Gallery
683: Community Forums
684: Home
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Your Account
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Downloads
691: Community Forums
692: Photo Gallery
693: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
T95 Info
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:28 am
Post subject: T95 Info

I figured I'd open a new thread for this.

Here is a couple of outakes regarding the 'basic' T95 suspension from 1958 document.







Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

The 1958 data sheet on the T95 which mentions two types of track, the T114 & T115.



Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Here is a sample of the diffeent variants of T95, beside the 'usual' ones.....













Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:04 am
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Hi,

Moved from the Ft. McCoy thread:

- Kurt_Laughlin
The T114 track was for "Tanks T95, T96, T110 and other vehicles having similar suspensions" according to OCM 36316 (20 SEP 56) that assigned the nomenclature. T114 track was double pin with rubber bushings, hence live. It is listed as being lighter than the T108 and T109 which were for the same vehicles. They were live tracks as well.

T108 - Replaceable rubber chevron grousers
T109 - Replaceable steel grousers
T114 - Integral rubber chevron grousers

KL


Live? Are you sure? It doesn't look 'live'...no end connectors. It looks to me like a scaled-up version of the M113 track, which I'm pretty sure is not 'live' track. I think the rubber bushing reduces the squeak and protects the pins. I could be wrong...

{Added: From Dontos first post here: "...flat-track type suspension..." = non-live track. I think I prefer "flat" to "dead" and will use it that way.}

As for Doug's question about return rollers, I'm not sure that they are indicative of track type except that the lack of them usually indicates 'flat' track. On the other hand, many WWII German and Soviet vehicles had return rollers with flat (non-live) track. It may be related to the allowable stresses on the drive sprockets and idlers? Better post war designs could handle the lateral/shear stresses of the unsupported return run of track, where previous examples could not?

I know that the US went with live track early-on, which improved track retention at high speeds. It seems that when weight became an issue (M41, M551, M113) the designers went back to flat track though.

Interesting discussion!

C

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Live is my presumption for rubber bushed track. As best I can tell the US hasn't used any "dry pin" or dead tracks since WWII. BTW, "flat track suspension" means no return rollers, regardless of the design of the track blocks itself, don't interchange flat and dead Smile Most German WWII and Soviet tracks until the 1980's were dead. Other than the Pz I through IV and the KV and IS series, all the suspensions in that period were flat.

The main reason for using live track is to reduce rolling resistance. Because the track wants to curl around the wheels alread, it takes less power to move them.

The M113 used T130 tracks, which were single pin with rubber bushings. The rubber was bonded to the hole in the track and to a steel liner with a hexagonal hole that was positioned just so. The track pins were hexagonal, so the orientation of the tracks to each other was fixed.

I suggest anyone interested in this stuff to get or read "The Technology of Tanks" by Richard Ogorkiewicz (sp?). A great two volume book. [EDIT - Good golly! I just checked on Amazon and used copies are going for $850!!!. It was "only" $105 when I got mine back in '91 or '92.]

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:54 am
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

- C_Sherman
Hi,

Live? Are you sure? It doesn't look 'live'...no end connectors. It looks to me like a scaled-up version of the M113 track, which I'm pretty sure is not 'live' track. I think the rubber bushing reduces the squeak and protects the pins. I could be wrong...


C


Re: M113 track...at least the original stuff...laid stone flat on the ground, easy to bend and of course, mount (you could pull the track on by hand once you had the road wheels on the track). I can't say about some of the later stuff, like Diehl(?) track. I have pics of later M113's with an end connector type track...that might be "live"...can't say.

Sorry to open a can of worms, but this "live/dead/flat" and "supported/unsupported" issue has been bothering me for a while (you could say, forty years or so). I'm not sure there is a definitive answer, but there must be some conventions*. Kurt?


*Only one I'm pretty sure of is that "live" track has bushings that "encourage" the track to bend "inwards" to assist it's travel around sprocket and idler's and thereby to keep the track where it's supposed to be. Beyond that, it gets real fuzzy for me in some cases.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:08 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

- Kurt_Laughlin
Live is my presumption for rubber bushed track. As best I can tell the US hasn't used any "dry pin" or dead tracks since WWII. BTW, "flat track suspension" means no return rollers, regardless of the design of the track blocks itself, don't interchange flat and dead Smile Most German WWII and Soviet tracks until the 1980's were dead. Other than the Pz I through IV and the KV and IS series, all the suspensions in that period were flat.

The main reason for using live track is to reduce rolling resistance. Because the track wants to curl around the wheels alread, it takes less power to move them.

KL


Live track is simply track that, by some mechanical means (usually a wedge bearing on machined surfaces on the track pins), incurs a tendency to curl inward when 'relaxed'. Flat track lays flat.

Design differences aside, there is no functional difference between WWII German track and the track on the M113. The rubber bushings are a refinement, not a fundamental engineering change.

Live track may reduce rolling resistance, but cannot reduce power requirements. Basic physics: TANSTAAFL. The major advantage of live track is a resistance to shedding at high speeds, because the track naturally prefers move around rather than away from an idler or sprocket. The curl helps the track to maintain contact and overcome centripetal forces that pull it away from the wheel. Live tracks generally require return rollers to avoid overstressing the track by bending it 'backwards' on the top 'return' runs. Such bending increases the risks of broken track pins, which require replacement and defeat the purposes of using the live track in the first place.

The advantages of flat tracks are in the manufacturing process and in the maintenance requirements, and thus costs. Live tracks require a certain amount of (relatively) precise machining in manufacturing, and can be more difficult and resource intensive to maintain. Flat tracks don't require the level of precision or manufacturing effort that live tracks do, and are (relatively) easier to maintain in service.

Flat tracks may or may not use return rollers, because they are able to bend 'backwards' to some extent, without problems. Modern tendencies are to use larger roadwheels and allow the track to touch or nearly touch the tops of them. (The WWII Germans tried it both ways and seemingly preferred no return rollers with their later designs.)

I'm just a dumb ol' engineer, and I didn't write no books. But this stuff I 'get'. A curious tanker that asks a lot of questions in engineering school can learn a lot,and I did!

Chuck

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:31 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Chuck

WOW!! That is an excellent descriptive. I think I even understand that.


I'm actually learning something new here.

"Training has taken place"
Thank you
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Well, somebody wanted nomenclature conventions and that's what they are.

Flat Track Suspension - Return run of track supported by the tops of the road wheels.

Dry Pin Track = Dead Track – Tracks with pins that float freely within the track blocks. “Dead” is also used to describe worn tracks where the bushing in “Live” tracks no longer maintains the proper angular orientation between adjacent blocks.

Rubber Bushed Track = Live Track – Tracks with pins that are fixed in relation to the track blocks. "Rubber bushings eliminate metal-to-metal contact between the pins and the links and the necessary angular movement between them is provided by torsion of the rubber, the outer surface of the bushings being fixed to the links and the inner surface to the pins." (TOT)

I’ve attached a scan from a TM showing the M113 track block.

i75.photobucket.com/al...1track.jpg

As you can see, the pin and the bushing hole are both hexagonal. A hexagonal pin in a hexagonal bushing hole means the pin cannot rotate relative to the bushing. If the theory is that the T130 tracks are “dry pin” types, then the obvious question is, why go to the added expense? If the theory is that the T130 tracks are “dry pin” types, then the bushing must be free to spin within the track block. If that is true, why was it necessary to place the adjacent blocks at a 20-degree angle when reconnecting track?

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:52 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Kurt

Pulling something from my 'endless bag of tricks', here is a couple of photos of a track block from an M113, that I just happen to have available here at home......





It is amazing the assortment of items one collects over the years.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Hi Folks! Sorry I am so late to the party.

Looks like Kurt needs some back up and I am here to do that.

While I don't have Dr. O's books that Kurt suggest reading, I do have Armoured Forces, A History of Armoured Forces and Their Vehicles and Design and Development of Fighting Vehicles by the good Doctor.

Who is Dr. Richard M. Ogorkiewicz?

"....is an internationally recognized expert on armour." and "....is an internationaly recognised authority on ..(AFVs)..and has lectured on the subject in Britain, ..United States, Sweden and Israel."

When it comes to the design of AFVs this was the man to go to during his time.

There are three types of track used on AFVs,
1. Band track, rubber with steel cables inside. examples US Halftracks, M50, M56, M114. Works well on smaller AFVs.

2. DEAD track block. Note this is a type of block used to make up a track.
examples: just about every Soviet tank up until they started using Live track block during the mid Cold War era. Most tracked vehicle designs started out with dead type track block and the Soviets stuck with it. The tank would be destoryed before the short life of that type of track was reached. It was a lot easier to teach Ivan how to take it apart and put it back to together. Remember most Ivan tankers came from a farm where horse powered equipment was the standard. Dead track block was just like hooking up a team of horse to a plow or wagon. It can be made faster and it cost less than live block.

3. Live track block, Note again, this is a type of block used to make up a track. Examples: Every US light and medium tank from the mid 1930s up to now. It cost more to make, needs more care, but it last a lot longer than dead track block.

To Chuck, "It doesn't look like 'live' track, no end conectors.
Sorry but end connectors have NOTHING to do with live track. Track block with end connectors is a type of live track. That T95 has a live track and the M113 has a live track.

Don't know what type of track block you are looking at, check the rear of hull where the track begains the return to the front. It the block is dead, there will a wedge block that will push the dry pin back into the dead blocks.

Sorry Doug!
If your M113 track layed flat and the end blocks did not lift up off the ground, then that track was dead or dying and needed to be replaced. For the most part very little new track was shipped to the RVN. Track was removed at the depots from vehicles that where being shipped out for rebuild and that used track was shipped to the field. It is a case of most vehicles would be damaged/destroyed before the track died. No need to waste new live track block.

Back to Chuck:
Your "I prefer 'flat' to 'dead' and will use it that way." doesn't work.
That is the same as saying I perfer Applies to Oranges and will use Applies anytime I see an Orange.

DEAD or dead track is a TYPE of track block, FLAT Track is a feature of the 'Christie' tracked suspension system. It has nothing to do with the type of block used.

A comment about 'Christie suspension'.
Dontos your are correct, the T95 has a 'MODIFIED Christie suspension'.
The M114, M551, the M107/110 hulls, the T55 and T62s all have 'MODIFIED Christie suspensions'. The T34 Family of vehicles, T54 and most of the British Crusier tanks up to the Comet have true 'Christie suspensions'.

Vehicles with a Christie or Modifed Christie don't have support rollers so the road wheels have more room to move upward.

It is sad that we lost the old site. This subject came up back in June of 2000.
Spot report! Passed my bed time, see you folks later.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:18 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks! Sorry I am so late to the party.


Sorry Doug!
If your M113 track layed flat and the end blocks did not lift up off the ground, then that track was dead or dying and needed to be replaced. For the most part very little new track was shipped to the RVN. Track was removed at the depots from vehicles that where being shipped out for rebuild and that used track was shipped to the field. It is a case of most vehicles would be damaged/destroyed before the track died. No need to waste new live track block.

Sgt, Scouts out!


No doubt. Laughing I replaced three road wheels on "Head Shoppe" and you should have seen what came off. Only one replacement was "new", the others were just "not as bad" as what was on there. Only had to retrack once and it was flat as a pancake. My pics of X-Ray's little incident in the field don't show the track due to the heaviness of the bush, but it was the same way.

Here's a shot of a Sheridan track, most likely salvage from a "beyond repair" vehicle.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

Great shot! Notice how the last track shoe near the hull is lifted off the ground. That LIVE track still has a bit of life left in it.

The Long Bin Depot would set that track aside and when needed ship some of or all of it out to a unit requesting some track. The vehicle would get shipped out of county without the tracks.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:10 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Roy said:

Track was removed at the depots from vehicles that where being shipped out for rebuild


Flash forward 25 years to Fort Irwin and you'd have the same situation with the M551's there. Crewed them from 87-89 and we drove the crap out of them. Combine that with the fact that most parts production had been halted years ago and all we would get was war stock/ rebuild/ refurbished you'd get some pretty interesting deliveries. The only other unit that used them by then was 3-73 Armor at Fort Bragg. When a tank was coded out (warped/ cracked hull ) it was stripped. Officially we could send them off with just 4 road wheels and arms. Unofficially we would also exchange every working part we could for broken ones if the item was required for turn in. Short of a hull being cracked/ warped we would fix them up ourselves. Track and sprockets were in serious shortage for a while. Pretty bad when exchange criteria was either one of the center guides was broken on a block or the bushings were so wore out the nut on the track pin was damaged and a socket wouldn't fit on it. Right before I left they started sending us war stock track and they also started the M551/OPFOR model production at Anniston.

Point was, you could definitely tell when you had dead block track. The noise of it slapping on the hull was very obvious when doing 35-40 MPH in the Desert while you prayed it didn't snap Shocked !!! 324 (C24) did and she flipped ass over nose when what was left of the track bunched up.

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

- Roy_A_Lingle


It is sad that we lost the old site. This subject came up back in June of 2000.

Sgt, Scouts out!


I would have missed it anyway, as I don't think I found the DG for a couple more years, maybe three.

The Wayback website might have some of that stuff archived, but then again, maybe not. The old site became untenable anyway so it's not as if we had a choice.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum