Com-Central.net

...like the person in the comments sections said...."my nips are hard".

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtN86ZWOvVE

I don't know what this was from, but it's great that they got to use some of the same streets. (and no '56 Fords got whacked in the process). New meaning is given to the term "axle tramp" at 1:02.


BTW, have I ever told you about my replica "Bullitt" car?









1982 somewhere around Loa, Utah.....











...wait for it.......














YES, my 1972 Super Beetle (driven for five years when I was a lowly return student and newly minted Med Tech). Only my CJ-7 could go some of the places that this car went.

P.S.

Ascout Road Test report....

In coming weeks, will be filing a few "road test" reports based on some evaluations for future Ascout-mobile.

Today, 2012 Camaro SS, 45th Aniv. edition. 6.2L SS, 425 H.P. w/ 6-Sp, 84 miles on odo:

Comfy, decent seat support in curves (country roads with some mild flogging). Arm supports are low unless electric seat is lowered, which you don't want to do as this has worst visibility of the current three musclecars available. However, in raised position, visibility is not so bad as most road tests would have you believe. Was not uncomfortable for viewing curves on narrow country roads taken with some "determination".

Standard is a Hurst Shifter, which was slightly notchy (as was the aftermarket install in my '05Mustang GT, this is probably inevitable on short-throw shifters). I wanted to test an auto with the paddle shifers, but they didn't have one. The 6-sp does not force 1-4th shifts with mild driving, which is nice. Car is noticeably heavier than a Mustang GT, which would be first choice for actual track day work or taking on tight curves. Engine definitely delivers on power and auditory stimulation, but not objectionable sound and not overwhelming. I feel sure any >'05 Mustang GT in decent tune (either 300 or 400. H.P. models) will out accelerate it due to weight, but at my age, who cares? This model has Brembo disc brakes, and they deliver. Cabin is comfy, and I liked the HUD display more than I thought I would. Trunk is large, back seats are not, but what do you expect? Ingress/egress is also typical for car of this class and driver of my age and afflictions (arthritic back), but does not cause grunting or more than one effort.

In a direct heads up performance comparo, the advantage goes to Mustang. Comfort is about equal, but capacity goes to Camaro.

Nest up, Dodge Challenger RT and maybe SRT. I expect the Challenger (the biggest of the three) to have all the best qualities of the Camaro plus some, with less performance in the standard hemi.

Will also be testing Infiniti G37 Coupe and FX35. Will advise. Expect to have a lot of fun, regardless.

Oh My Goodness... where to start! Let me get my drool cup in place first...

I'm tempted to post my own smart@ss youtube comment about how she musta been really determined to give that guy his sandwich. GREAT remake of the chase scene, although it ended too early!

I appreciate your assessment of the Camaro. Haven't driven one myself yet but my neighbor had one for a short while. I'm surprised about the weight as I'd thought traditionally they were featherweights...well back in the day at least. The new ones don't flip any switches for me style-wise but they do have some nice hardware and Chevy is doing great things with the LS series of motors.

The wifey and I had test driven a Challenger R/T a couple of years ago, 6-speed manual and heated seats. White with a red stripe...I was having visions of the movie Vanishing Point the whole time the wife was rowing through the gears around town. It was a spur of the moment thing and the ol'lady did the driving. We didn't have the 'Stang paid off quite yet at the time but if we did...I think a trade-in would have occurred. I also had a rental Challenger in Phoenix for a week at about the same time and despite being the V6 auto-equipped rental version, found it to be a VERY comfortable and well-handling car. More refined than my 'Stang and just a tad roomier inside to give it that "gentleman's muscle car" feel. Other than the rental version needing a V8 I don't recall any negative impressions from either of the two cars. Will be very interested in your take on it.

Chargers are nice and I rent the 6-cylinder versions all the time when I travel (not so much these days), I just am swayed so much by the Challenger's more aggressive, classic look.

The 2012 Mustang on the other hand is most definitely a hard machine to deny when considering that absolutely fine new motor. There's a new Coyote class starting up in NHRA that sounds like it'll be fun to watch develop. Drawbacks are some interior style changes that personally I think are a step back from the '05/'06 models we both own(ed), and the non-functional plastic boy-racer stuff on some of them.

I've been tempted to upgrade except I'm too cheap to let go of a car I finally have paid off, and I'm becoming a bit skeptical about quality. There have been some silly things breaking or prematurely wearing out on the 'Stang as noted by several TSB's that Ford has issued. My emergency brake cables freeze in place during winter because of defective rubber cups that let water pool around the connectors at the rear brake calipers. Fog lights stopped working when the headlight switch decided to internally break apart - the headlights still worked fine, at least, and on the bright side replacing the switch is easy enough. Lower ball joints are already loose beyond spec and need replacement at only 39,000 miles...at the price of about a grand when all is said and done...WTF! Not to mention the bizarre electrical current drain that happens for no reason sometimes. These are all problems that other owners of '05's are having, I guess it goes with the territory of being an early adopter to the S197 platform. At least there's a 'lazy gauge' electrical problem that is also common that I am not having....yet. This is all stuff that Ford has documented in TSB's although that doesn't mean they'll pay for correcting the issues. And don't even start me on telling you the horror story about the two-piece screw-together spark plugs that Ford installed on our years of the 4.6 3V cammer engines. Suffice to say, I do need to sell the 'Stang before it gets to 100K miles and new plugs will be due, because it turns out that carbon buildup around the lower part of the plug tends to "keep" the bottom half of the 2-piece plug in place when you unscrew the top of the spark plug (and the halves screw together with a right-hand thread so the halves unscrew as you are removing the plug), and the only clue that something is wrong is the "clunk" sound people are hearing when the bottom half of the spark plug drops down onto the top of the piston as they stare bewilderdly at the top half of a spark plug that came out of the head. Only one way to recover that piece, at that point. "Off with her head!" said the Queen...Ford has issued a bizarre, lengthy spark plug removal procedure that involves spooning amounts of carbon cleaner into the spark plug cavities, waiting half an hour, easing the plugs out a quarter-turn at a time, spooning more carbon cleaner into the hole between quarter-turns, waiting, turning a little more, etc....with the commuting scene here in D.C. area, and given the 'Stang is pretty much used only as a commuter on days that I don't ride the mo'cycle to work, I am sure she has an above-average amount of carbon buildup already.

Yeah, I wanna hear how much you enjoy test driving a Challenger, buddy! Have a blast!!!!

- JG300-Stoopy

I've been tempted to upgrade except I'm too cheap to let go of a car I finally have paid off, and I'm becoming a bit skeptical about quality. There have been some silly things breaking or prematurely wearing out on the 'Stang as noted by several TSB's that Ford has issued. My emergency brake cables freeze in place during winter because of defective rubber cups that let water pool around the connectors at the rear brake calipers. Fog lights stopped working when the headlight switch decided to internally break apart - the headlights still worked fine, at least, and on the bright side replacing the switch is easy enough. Lower ball joints are already loose beyond spec and need replacement at only 39,000 miles...at the price of about a grand when all is said and done...WTF! Not to mention the bizarre electrical current drain that happens for no reason sometimes. These are all problems that other owners of '05's are having, I guess it goes with the territory of being an early adopter to the S197 platform. At least there's a 'lazy gauge' electrical problem that is also common that I am not having....yet. This is all stuff that Ford has documented in TSB's although that doesn't mean they'll pay for correcting the issues. And don't even start me on telling you the horror story about the two-piece screw-together spark plugs that Ford installed on our years of the 4.6 3V cammer engines. Suffice to say, I do need to sell the 'Stang before it gets to 100K miles and new plugs will be due, because it turns out that carbon buildup around the lower part of the plug tends to "keep" the bottom half of the 2-piece plug in place when you unscrew the top of the spark plug (and the halves screw together with a right-hand thread so the halves unscrew as you are removing the plug), and the only clue that something is wrong is the "clunk" sound people are hearing when the bottom half of the spark plug drops down onto the top of the piston as they stare bewilderdly at the top half of a spark plug that came out of the head. Only one way to recover that piece, at that point. "Off with her head!" said the Queen...Ford has issued a bizarre, lengthy spark plug removal procedure that involves spooning amounts of carbon cleaner into the spark plug cavities, waiting half an hour, easing the plugs out a quarter-turn at a time, spooning more carbon cleaner into the hole between quarter-turns, waiting, turning a little more, etc....with the commuting scene here in D.C. area, and given the 'Stang is pretty much used only as a commuter on days that I don't ride the mo'cycle to work, I am sure she has an above-average amount of carbon buildup already.

Yeah, I wanna hear how much you enjoy test driving a Challenger, buddy! Have a blast!!!!

Have you checked your window function? 'Stangs have electric front windows that open themselves a bit when the door is opened. The sensor tells the window to open a crack to reduce door resistance from pulling a vacuum when opened. The window can be caught in a loop or in one position pulling a barely discernable voltage in effort to open or stop the window. Over some hours like nighttime, it can drain the battery completely. See what your windows are doing as you close up the car. Listen for hums.

Spent a couple of hours flogging Challengers today...two RT's and an SRT8. One each RT in auto and manual 6-sp Tremec. Clearly the engine in the manual has a different map and sound...more aggressive than the auto with paddle shift version. Frankly, in a car of this weight (which did not feel noticeably heavier than the Camaro, but of course lot's more than a Mustang) the 5.7 hemi feels adequate, but not remarkable. Like I'd expect a standard V8 in a standard Mercedes to feel. A Mustang GT with even the old 300 horse engine will walk all over an RT Challenger. That said, the Challenger is the car I'd most like to make an 8 hour highway drive in. Very comfy and rock-freakin' steady. Hands off the wheel at 80mph and I think you could do that at well over 100. I don't think the RT version of the 5.7 can be considered a "musclecar" in anything....it gets the job done, but totally composed and no goosebumps. Has to turn high rpm to even get your attention. Beauty is, it's a big car for a coupe and can carry a lot of stuff...has 60/40 rear folding seats, too.

SRT8 in in another league altogether. Brembo brakes that would stop a train (just as the Camaro I drove had) and the trak pak button adjustable suspension package. Tight, but not uncomfortable and just as pleasant on the freeway as the RT, though the steering feels quicker so no nodding off at the wheel...

...which is unlikely because just the engine note will keep you awake. That's a compliment. It's not loud or intrusive, just there...in the best sort of way. Remember how the interior audio in the black Dodge Charger was in "Bullitt"? (of course you do). It sounds exactly like that at freeway cruise speed (which was 75-80 on my test). If you put your foot down, very nice things happen, though a downshift from cruise is a good idea since it's an overdrive gear and the engine has that variable displacement thing (shuts down 4 cylinders when not under demand). The Tremec 1-4 skip shift is not intrusive, but 470 lb/ft. of torque helps you to not notice.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBLOLi_Ex-Q

1:31-1:50.....like that, exactly like that...somebody studied this audio in tuning the exhaust.

Then I pushed the SRT through some on and off ramps pretty hard...and got no understeer that a little right foot wouldn't fix. You have to really thrash it to squeal the tires sideways...something that came very naturally to the Mustang GT (live rear axle no doubt helped there). If you get in too deep in the SRT, it's because you asked for it.

I have an offer to borrow one for a day and maybe keep overnight. I declined the offer for today because I was afraid my left hand would start doing some automatic check writing if I did that. Sales guy was great...I may be heading back there.

Note: this is a Rick Hendrick (yes, Hendrick Motorsports) dealer. Apparently, they have a whole remote lot full of SRT8's and they sell them like a Honda dealer does Civic's. Mucho volume.

I'm thinking seriously of a "stripe delete", insignia-delete option, which they'll do. Maybe just a plain brown wrapper (that is to say, tungsten metallic). How bad a sleeper would that be?

- JG300-Ascout

I'm thinking seriously of a "stripe delete", insignia-delete option, which they'll do. Maybe just a plain brown wrapper (that is to say, tungsten metallic). How bad a sleeper would that be?

I think that sounds absolutely badass! Sorry the R/T didn't meet expectations - when we test drove it, th'wife was behind the wheel the whole time (she has a pretty good clutch foot).

Sorry I haven't responded sooner I am dealing with a flooded basement...be back in touch soon if I don't keel over!

- JG300-Stoopy

- JG300-Ascout

I'm thinking seriously of a "stripe delete", insignia-delete option, which they'll do. Maybe just a plain brown wrapper (that is to say, tungsten metallic). How bad a sleeper would that be?

I think that sounds absolutely badass! Sorry the R/T didn't meet expectations - when we test drove it, th'wife was behind the wheel the whole time (she has a pretty good clutch foot).

Sorry I haven't responded sooner I am dealing with a flooded basement...be back in touch soon if I don't keel over!

The standard hemi is an "adequate" engine, but it really has to be churning (like, > 4,000rpm) to make it's presence felt. Not very muscle-car-like to lack low end grunt. Means you have to make something of a spectacle of yourself to have any fun. The 392 is also not like the big blocks of sainted memory, but from 2,500-3,000 you get some real grunt. This means plenty of satisfaction without a lot of "look at me" wheelspin or exhaust howl.

In the std hemi auto at almost any cruise speed, I had to paddle shift down TWO gears to find the powerband (it was like riding a sport bike). In the SRT, in anything below 6th gear, a single downshift at any speed will find that amalgam extracting grunt we love so much. The dual setting sport suspension in the SRT is also a nice touch for taking the mush out of the ride.

Good luck fighting the floodwaters! I'm in a flood-free zone and have no basement (darnit!...I really could use one).

Just for a goof, I went looking for a good and familiar analog from the past for a performance comparison. The SRT8 Challenger has documented specs that equal (or better) these:

A test drive made by AutoCar in 1971 revealed the following performances: 0-60 mph time of 5.4 seconds, a 0-100 mph time of 12.6 seconds, a standing start quarter mile time of 13.4 seconds at a terminal velocity of 104 mph, and a top speed of 174 mph

Those numbers are for a new Ferrari 365 GTB4 "Daytona", which weighed 600lbs' less, had a 4-cam 4.4 liter engine (rated at 365 H.P.) and gen-u-ine aerodynamics (for a front engined car). Sure, it's forty years older, but the inflation adjusted price doesn't even begin to compare.

Not half bad.

Hmmmmm... sounds like you are justifiably enamored with, or at least suitably impressed by, the SRT8 Challenger. Can't say I blame you and you're a lucky devil to be considering one. I very much enjoy the opportunity to read an evaluation made by someone I know & trust and who knows what a real ride was like "back in the day".

Remind me, where did the 5.0 Coyote-powered 'Stang fit into the equation or was it ever in the running?

Looking forward to the reports on the Infinitis, even the cross-dresser thing..

- JG300-Stoopy

Hmmmmm... sounds like you are justifiably enamored with, or at least suitably impressed by, the SRT8 Challenger. Can't say I blame you and you're a lucky devil to be considering one. I very much enjoy the opportunity to read an evaluation made by someone I know & trust and who knows what a real ride was like "back in the day".

Remind me, where did the 5.0 Coyote-powered 'Stang fit into the equation or was it ever in the running?

Looking forward to the reports on the Infinitis, even the cross-dresser thing..

I've not been too excited about the new Mustang mainly because...

1. I've had one, though it was the 4.6 modular engine.
2. There is one coming around every corner it seems.
3. I've owned an old school Camaro SS, but never a Mopar (though I got to drive a lot of them back in the day...including my bosses Charger 440, which I worked on from gas station days...he'd let me take it out alone and flog and even race it as long as I kept it tuned for him)

That said, I love how they've made them look more aggressive like the first of the "new" Shelby's did. And what's not to like about 5.0 liters of Ford goodness? OTOH, I'd have to, in fact, get a Shelby if I wanted other than the new (since '10) complaint-plagued Chinese built GETRAG tranny (Shelby's still use Tremec). Not that all are affected, and I'm sure some of the issues are not unrelated to abuse, but I also know how virulent I can get as a disaffected consumer should I be a victim of a buggy transmission. A Shelby is within reach, but I don't know that I'm that keen on having blower whine stepping on my exhaust note.

The SRT8 gives up a lot on weight, but so did the original E-body Challengers and Cuda's (which were totally unencumbered with anything like quality control, let's be honest). The new ones are MUCH nicer inside than the crappy interiors of the original*...and truth be told, the exterior is actually an improvement in looks over the original. Look at a few pics side-by-side and the new version comes off better than even soft-focus memory or recent viewings of "Vanishing Point" will call to mind.

*Frankly, had the old E-body cars not had 440's and Hemi's available, nobody would remember them today, and probably not even the Trans-Am 340 six-pack version...they were that bad. Terrific engines, crappy cars. All the big Mopar mills were better in the intermediate and larger sedan offerings....and ET's of the day bear this out...Challengers and Cuda's were overwhelmed with the big engines. The E-bodies were regularly trounced by Road Runners, Coronets, GTX's, Chargers, etc. because they could put that power down without all the flex. And generally, they looked better. (I love me some GTX..well, up to 1970, anyway).

I'm thinking of the new Challenger (in solid pitch black, no stripes) as a closer successor to the '68-9 Charger than the new Chargers themselves are. I'd just need some thick, horn-rimmed glasses and a short white-haired guy with a Winchester pump in the passenger's seat to complete the picture.

- JG300-Ascout

I'm thinking of the new Challenger (in solid pitch black, no stripes) as a closer successor to the '68-9 Charger than the new Chargers themselves are. I'd just need some thick, horn-rimmed glasses and a short white-haired guy with a Winchester pump in the passenger's seat to complete the picture.

Wow. I absolutely could not agree more. The Chargers make a decent rental car, especially when I've had to take some of my old sorter crew with me on a trip, but as far as a redo of the original it's far off the mark. Funny that they're just recently adding character lines to the body it make it more reminsicent of the original, when it's growing farther apart.

I have a Remington 12-gauge pump if that's close enough, and more grey hair every day. Not much I can do about the height though

Guy in our high school had a '71 GTX and loved that thing, probably still has it today - although I agree that year started to look bloated and weird, much like the Satellite Sebring. which I never could figure out why they were the same make, same year, same body style for all I could tell, but different names. I'm sure the difference is obvious if I googled enough but when it looks the way it does, why bother?

100% agree the new Challengers are more "challenger-ey" than the orginal, isn't that odd?

I haven't been keeping up n the Mustang forums and such and so hadn't heard about the GETRAG tranny and issues, but.....chinese built, are you freakin' kidding me???!!!!!!! Talk about disappointing. That changes my whole plans for what the next car will be. Think I'll get an entry level new Beetle and spend the balance on a Triumph Explorer 1200....

- JG300-Stoopy

I haven't been keeping up n the Mustang forums and such and so hadn't heard about the GETRAG tranny and issues, but.....chinese built, are you freakin' kidding me???!!!!!!! Talk about disappointing. That changes my whole plans for what the next car will be. Think I'll get an entry level new Beetle and spend the balance on a Triumph Explorer 1200....

Yep, it's even all right there on the "country of origin" sticker that's in the window of every new Mustang.

- JG300-Ascout

Yep, it's even all right there on the "country of origin" sticker that's in the window of every new Mustang.

Well.....screw that. 'Bout sums it up.

- JG300-Stoopy

- JG300-Ascout

Yep, it's even all right there on the "country of origin" sticker that's in the window of every new Mustang.

Well.....screw that. 'Bout sums it up.

I should specify "manual" transmissions. Not sure about autos.

Autos for our generation of 'Stangs ('05,'06) were made in France. The manuals were made in Mehico. Not that it impacted the decision any.

So I'm still worried what the Infiniti test drives are going to do for you, you might get wrapped up in all that comfort and tech and forget about the Mopar. Can't wait to see what you report!