±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 247
Total: 247
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Downloads
05: Home
06: Member Screenshots
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Downloads
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Home
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Photo Gallery
27: Home
28: Photo Gallery
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Home
34: Member Screenshots
35: Home
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Downloads
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Downloads
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Member Screenshots
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Downloads
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Downloads
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Home
78: Home
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Home
83: Home
84: Home
85: Home
86: Home
87: Home
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Downloads
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Home
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Member Screenshots
101: Member Screenshots
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: LinkToUs
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Member Screenshots
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Member Screenshots
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Home
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Home
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Member Screenshots
143: Home
144: Home
145: Member Screenshots
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Home
151: Home
152: Home
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Home
157: Home
158: Home
159: Member Screenshots
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Supporters
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Member Screenshots
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Photo Gallery
174: Downloads
175: Community Forums
176: Member Screenshots
177: Community Forums
178: Member Screenshots
179: Member Screenshots
180: Community Forums
181: News
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Member Screenshots
185: Member Screenshots
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Member Screenshots
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Photo Gallery
199: Home
200: Member Screenshots
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Home
215: Member Screenshots
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Downloads
220: Home
221: News
222: Community Forums
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Member Screenshots
239: Home
240: Home
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Downloads
244: Community Forums
245: Member Screenshots
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
743rd Independent tank battalion (US Army)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Crock8
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 2:03 am
Post subject: 743rd Independent tank battalion (US Army)

I recently re-read a book titled Hell has no heroes.
This is a thinly fictionalised account of one of the 743rd tanks (#7) (2nd Platoon, B Company) named Barbara
This time I got the bright idea of doing a model of the tank, which now appears to be not so bright.

I actually had the idea several years ago when I read the book the first time, so this time I was noting any mentions about the tank itself to help identify which version of the M4 it was.

This time around I also tried to do research to possibly find out what tanks were issued to the 743rd before D-Day. While I wasn't able to confirm this, it seems the tanks were M4s "mid-production" (converted to DDs).

The next question was on what kit to choose.
I am not a dedicated modeller, though I had built a few in my younger years, and now do about one 1/35 kit every three years, the current being a T-34.
I wouldn't have minded either 1/72 or 1/35, though 1/35 is of course less forgiving.

After reading online, I came to realisation that to build a 1/72 model I would need to purchase two kits, one of the Dragon 1/72 M4 75mm w/Deep Wading Kit - Normandy #7367 version that would be 'fixed' with an engine deck from a not-so-good Trumpeter (07223) M4.

The 1/35 kit is available only from Dragon 1/35 6511 M4 Sherman 75mm "Normandy". To me the kit is intimidating with over 600 parts! And this without the crew, though there is no shortage of third party sets.

I was wondering if anyone could suggest other alternatives in the 1/72 scale, and also a good set of crew figures, as I would like to do a small diorama, with four crewmen and Andre, a character from the book that was the stand in French Resistance bow gunner.
There seems to be a shortage of third party crew sets on the market though.
It seems I will also need to change the wheels on the Dragon 1/72 kit to cast?

So it seems that the 1/35 kit would be a straight build but with a lot of parts, a more demanding overall project, while the 1/72 would be less demanding as a whole, but with more conversion and fixing of the basic kit involved.

Lastly, and this is beyond my scratch building skills, but the very prominent feature of the tank in the book were the propellers left over from its DD conversion that it retained until Germany, and which were used to hang a field phone off to talk with infantry. Are there 1/72 and/or 1/35 conversion kits sold that provide these propellers? What would the field phone look like?

Thank you in advance for the relies.

Greg
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 1:27 pm
Post subject: Re: 743rd Independent tank battalion (US Army)

"Hell Has No Heroes" (originally published as "Barbara") was written by a veteran of the 743rd Tank Bn. A really good read on what it might have been like to actually be a US tanker in the ETO.

One problem with modelling "Barbara" from the book - the tank is described as an M4 but the US Army's DD conversions were all built on M4A1s, with a few hull variations. The book describes the M4A1s as coming later, but the author reversed history in that case. I am also curious about the author having "Barbara" carry its propellors until VE Day. Many photos of ex-DD tanks in action show that the props were removed along with the screens. Even though the props could be declutched and raised out of the way they would still interfere with engine maintenance and some cross-country movement.
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: 743rd Independent tank battalion (US Army)

I have found that most wartime accounts - even some technical ones - use M4 and M4A1 interchangeably. Alternatively they use M4A1 to describe the 76mm or HVSS models.

There were several DDs that kept their screens (props??) until spring '45 as there are photos in several of Steve Z's books from March and April. So . . . possible, but not common.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Smashy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 05, 2010
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:50 pm
Post subject: Re: 743rd Independent tank battalion (US Army)

- Kurt_Laughlin
There were several DDs that kept their screens (props??) until spring '45 as there are photos in several of Steve Z's books from March and April. So . . . possible, but not common.

KL


You have to remember that Company C, 736th Tank Battalion, was re-equipped with 17 DD tanks and was attached to the 743d Tank Battalion for the support of the 30th Infantry Division of the Ninth Army in their Rhine crossing operations on 24 March 1945 and any actually with DD equipment are likely to be from this unit and not the 743rd.

_________________
Smashy
Back to top
View user's profile
Crock8
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: 743rd Independent tank battalion (US Army)

- binder001
"Hell Has No Heroes" (originally published as "Barbara") was written by a veteran of the 743rd Tank Bn. A really good read on what it might have been like to actually be a US tanker in the ETO.

One problem with modelling "Barbara" from the book - the tank is described as an M4 but the US Army's DD conversions were all built on M4A1s, with a few hull variations. The book describes the M4A1s as coming later, but the author reversed history in that case. I am also curious about the author having "Barbara" carry its propellors until VE Day. Many photos of ex-DD tanks in action show that the props were removed along with the screens. Even though the props could be declutched and raised out of the way they would still interfere with engine maintenance and some cross-country movement.


Yes, the one set of decals for the unit says its for an M4A1
I think the suggestion is that the propellers were kept for their memory's sake of the beach landings. A sort of status symbol in the battalion of "the originals"

Greg
Back to top
View user's profile
Crock8
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:26 pm
Post subject: Re: 743rd Independent tank battalion (US Army)

- Kurt_Laughlin
I have found that most wartime accounts - even some technical ones - use M4 and M4A1 interchangeably. Alternatively they use M4A1 to describe the 76mm or HVSS models.

There were several DDs that kept their screens (props??) until spring '45 as there are photos in several of Steve Z's books from March and April. So . . . possible, but not common.

KL


The author is adamant his tank had a 75mm
I don't think it would have been possible to keep the screens from Normandy to Germany, unless you refer to the frame attached to the hull?
Weren't other units issued with more DD tanks for the river crossings at a later stage? I read somewhere there were many more tanks converted to DD role because it was thought that Normandy may fail and the would try elsewhere.
Greg
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: 743rd Independent tank battalion (US Army)

According to information that I received from back in the 1970's, Firestone Tire and Rubber was contracted to build 350 Duplex Drive conversion kits for the US Army. These were fitted to M4A1 tanks at Lima Tank Depot. The tanks were used by the 70th, 741st and 743rd Tank Battalions (two companies from each) for Operation Neptune. There were three battalions in Italy provided with DD tanks for Operation Dragoon. Some US DDs were used by British and Canadian units for Neptune. A few DDs were found or refurbished for the Rhine crossings in 1945, but there weren't as many US M4A1 DDs as desired so some British Sherman III DDs (M4A2s) were also acquired for US use.

As far as keeping the screws (props) for "memories sake - remember that they offer a significant impediment to accessing the rear of the tank. Those doors in the rear were used frequently to service the radial engine. If I was a young tanker in WW2, after the second time that I hit my head on those props they would be lying in a French ditch somewhere :-).
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum