Stop by and see us :: Archived

FF_StepChild · Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject: Stop by and see us

flying-fogies.com/foru...ame=Forums
www.flying-fogies.com
Check us out, but remember, we are still learning. ANY comments or critisicms are welcome.

Shades · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Stop by and see us

Hiya Step,

Can see a lotta work went into those sites.

I'm not keen on the 'men-at-work' or 'vulture' gifs on the main site header, but I really like the navigation buttons.

On the forum, I would ditch the Nuke logo and insert an FF logo instead (you should have an option to do this somewhere).

Also, instead of having two separate url's, how about linking to the forum url from the main site, and vice versa?

I can tell you used FrontPage 5.0 to make the main site. FrontPage is a very good way for folks like us when we're starting out. But, if you can learn a little about html (and even more importantly CSS, which I've only recently started to look at myself and is hugely useful in building professional looking websites) it will improve your whole understanding of web-sites and therefore the site as a whole.

When you're starting out, you learn a lot of things very quickly, and it's difficult to restrain yourself from using everything at once to demonstrate your knowledge. The more professional sites seem to be those where the owners have managed to restrain themselves and have an overall site theme, rather than giving each page a different look and feel. There's a very good reason for this. It enables the visitor to establish from the 1st page where to look for information within the rest of the site and how to navigate through it. It puts the visitor subconsciously at ease.

A good site I use for web-building advice is "www.WebForumz.com". You'll find lots of free information and advice for non-profit websites from professional web-builders. Also, have a look at other web-sites. It's perfectly alright to be influenced from the ones you like, and discard the looks from those you don't.

I can direct you to some good online tutorials if you want but they will put you in for a little studying time.

Hope this helps some but don't take it as negative criticism. I liked both sites.

FF_StepChild · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Stop by and see us

Don't give it a second thought, Shades. I take the help and critique gladly. You are right on about Frontpage. It is something to get us started while I learn some HTML from my daughter, the REAL computer wiz. I will check into CSS also. Never even heard of that.
As far as the gifs go, the vulture stays. It is our mascot. But the angel in my life says that "The top of the page is just too busy" Nuff said LOL
I think I will ditch the rotating prop and put it on another page as the banner. I will check out the site you recommended as soon as I leave here.

Thanks for the input, and anyone else with comments or advice, good or bad, please speak up.

Blue skies, Ray

Shades · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Stop by and see us

CSS stands for "Cascading Style Sheets".

Basically it's like a master-control template for each page in your web site.
You link each .htm page to the .css file and it dictates the font types and layout of the whole site.
This means you can build, maintain and modify your site incredibly easily.
I've only discovered it myself recently and just used it for the 1st time on a site I'm still putting together but, for examples sake you can find it at "www.skwizz.co.uk". I built it for Internet Explorer only and it doesn't display correctly in any other browser, sorry if you use Firefox. Mr. Green

Two centralised images make up that whole site.
The background jpg repeats centrally along the vertical length of the page and is just 1 pixel high. The header is 1 single image which was sliced several times into separate images to control the buttons and their layout.
Both these images are stored off page in a separate folder and the css file loads them on each page in the correct places. Because the background image is one repeating image controlled by a css instruction, it can continue on and on as long as the data on the page continues without affecting the file size.

If you have a look at the links page, there's a link to the EW (Elite Wing) site which I've just done for them and it's constructed similarly but even more simply.

Because the images are controlled off page it means you can have incredibly small file sizes as well. The EURO site is 187Kb's total, and the EW site is just 163Kb.
These are only very simple sites but it gives you an idea of what can be done with CSS.

Cool

Excellent example of SOME of what can be accomplished with CSS.
Followed by
A simple, basic tutorial (which I really should get around to reading myself some time

).

Shadow_Bshwackr · Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Stop by and see us

Yep, CSS is the way to go IMO too...:wink: Com Central is a CSS site and combine that with a database driven sub architecture and now you're talking!!:D And, with CSS, you can 'template' your site and change the whole site color and outlay with a simple replacement of the template.

HTML still has it's place, but is loosing ground fast to the more interactive database driven software such as PHP/MySQL and ASP. While CSS can be a bit harder in conception at first, once you do get the hang of it, you're going to like it.

RCAF_MadDog · ***Janitor*** Offline Joined: Nov 13, 2004 Posts: 849

Looks like you've got a real good start on that Stepchild best way to learn is trial and error and if your after alot of visitors, keep in mind, your designing it the visitors so they will like to come back.

I think your doing good so far.

SS_Harry · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Sep 05, 2005 Posts: 63

can i give my $0.02 worth ...

You might want to consider making the navigation bar the same on all pages as it makes it less confusing for people whilst browsing. also on the about us page it looks like the formating for the last paragraph is out.

Other than that, a very nice site, and well put together.
And i completely agree with shades, CSS are the way forward (combined with php & MySql they make for a very powerful system) so it is a good idea to learn about them.

and finnaly, here's my link for you to look at ... www.w3schools.com/ ... if it's used to create pages on the web then there is a quick, simple tute about it here!

FF_StepChild · Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Stop by and see us

Good advice, all. Thank you all for your input. I will definitely work on the navigation, that thought had occured to me also. I get scatterbrained sometimes (a lot, really) trying to learn everything at once and forget to do all the things I set out to. LOL! Thanks, Harry for that link, it is just what I need. Please forgive me if I bug you guys for info, I just want to learn. If I can get anywhere near the quality of CC, I will die happy!

Thanks again and keep the advice coming,

Blue skies, Ray / StepChild

SS_Harry · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Sep 05, 2005 Posts: 63

No worries mate, anytime

Incidently, CC is (correct me if i'm wrong here people) a Content Managemet System, which basicly means it's a case of uploading a few files to a server then spending hours pulling your hair out trying to get it to do what you want/what it says it can do. Maybe that's just my experience of CMS's.

Anyways, I think too many people are going the way of the cms and more people should "hand make" their sites (i'm guilty of using cms when i could've put a few more hours in to hand make a site) Like you have. Bravo to you!

Shades · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Stop by and see us

I enjoy helping others out Steppy (same in CFS1, heheh) so no worries here, although the other respondents have more experience of this stuff than I do. Of the two sites I linked you to, the basic page design only took a couple of hours to do for the EURO page and even less on the EW site. Someone helped me out with the CSS file keeping it all together (in a major way lolol) which I'm going to try and change and improve myself, when I understand enough about it (need to find out how to align image slices on top of one another in CSS 1st heheh).

Harry, whut the heck's a 'content management system'? Is it one of these php forum thingies, or is there more to it?

SS_Harry · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Sep 05, 2005 Posts: 63

Quote::

whut the heck's a 'content management system'? Is it one of these php forum thingies, or is there more to it?

The forums are just part of the CMS. The entire thing is everything you see on a site (quick plug time) such as www.strikersquad.com. If we use that as an example, the whole site is made up of "blocks" that can be arranged and put where ever the admin (moi) wants. so everything you see is basicly in a preset area. Now, i've gone mad with the SS site and made most of the blocks HTML Blocks (there's all kinds of blocks that you can have) so that everything you see in the Blocks is hand coded by me (Or Moab) in HTML but I don't have to worry about the end page layout. I just have to worry about the content Smile

Hope that explains it a bit better and doesn't confuse you like it just confused me when i re read it Smile

Shadow_Bshwackr · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Stop by and see us

Rgr...indeed CC is a CMS.. Wink

In researching the ever changing web designs and styles, we ended up with a CMS php/MySQL combo instead of the static HTML site. While it's been tweaked to represent what CC is, it has the ability of using blocks and modules. The blocks are usually custom made but depending on your particular CMS, there could be a lot of premade blocks available that will let you add additions to your site that someone else has done.

As far as CSS goes, it's a great way to go and you can have CSS in static HTML as well as a CMS system. The CSS uses one master config to control all the colors, fonts, heading styles, layout, etc and every page made after that will have all those same characteristics throughout the site. Example: Need to change the background color? Change it once in the main style sheet and the all the pages in the site will change the background color..:D

Pulling your hair our Harry? ...ROFL...Site design is the hardest part IMO, but once you figure out what your goals are (I use a legal pad and list my goals and steps I take to get there), the mechanics of site building are straight forward enough and with Web Building programs such as Front Page, Dreamweaver and NVU, eases the pain somewhat. NVU is free BTW..(

) GET NVU

Ok, this is a good of time as any to announce CC now has a Web Site team Private forum. This is a new forum for the development of the CC web site and if anyone would like to join this group, click on UserGroups at the top of the board, find the Group: Web Development Team and apply...:wink: (was I sneaky enough in getting that in there?..lol) We encourage anyone with a desire to see CC develop in a particular way that will benefit the community as a whole to participate.

SS_Harry · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Sep 05, 2005 Posts: 63

Dont talk to me about damn site design lol

On average I design about 6 sites a month .. with the promise to my customers that each one is a "custom design". lmao, yeah right .. you know how difficult it is to get custom designs without them all looking the same?!?!

Anyways, i've had no complaints so far.

And moving swiftly back onto topic Wink

...

CSS is King when it comes to custom HTML pages. You can't better it unless you use one of these cms systems with php, MySQL, lots of bells and a few whistles.
As for software .. i use a combination of dreamweaver and notepad (for when dreamweaver feels like sticking in extra stuff for me, like un needed spaces) but all you really need it notepad, which is FREE (there's that wonderful price again), and a little knowledge. But of course, we all start somwhere and frontpage is, imho, a wonderful program for learning the basics.
I have one bit of advice for those that use frontpage to begin with though .. use it to learn HTML/CSS with and then try and make a site completely in HTML and only use the WYSIWYG part to check your work. You'd be surprised at how quickly you pick up HTML

Incidently .. my first ever site that went live is still in use (the owner doesn't want to upgrade it!) and it was made using frontpage (ga-admin.port5.com).

Shadow_Bshwackr · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Stop by and see us

Quote::

On average I design about 6 sites a month .. with the promise to my customers that each one is a "custom design". lmao, yeah right .. you know how difficult it is to get custom designs without them all looking the same?!?!

ROFLMAO....uh...yep, I do!...lol

What amazes me is, the fact that tastes in design vary so much. What looks good to me, doesn't always look good to my clients...lol (And visa-versa too Wink

)

When using programs such as Front Page, Dreamweaver, etc, I like building in 'split' view. I can't help but liking to see instant results. (Keeps me from back tracking too much..:D )

And Stepchild, there are lots of info and links on the net to help in web site design and "do's and don'ts", but IMO and I think Harry's too, is just jump in and get your hands dirty. After all, you can't really do much harm and they make soap..lol

FF_RacerXXX · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Stop by and see us

Not that Step will ever take any of you guys info as critiscism......but......
I got to stick up for my bud!
It's all my fault....LOL
I chat his ear off on Team Speak while he's designing this stuff.
SORRY RAY!