±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 826
Total: 826
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: News Archive
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: News Archive
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Home
11: Home
12: Downloads
13: Downloads
14: Community Forums
15: News Archive
16: Member Screenshots
17: Statistics
18: News Archive
19: Community Forums
20: Downloads
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Downloads
27: Member Screenshots
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Member Screenshots
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Member Screenshots
37: Statistics
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: News Archive
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Home
48: Photo Gallery
49: News Archive
50: Home
51: Member Screenshots
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Home
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Member Screenshots
58: Home
59: Home
60: Home
61: Home
62: Home
63: Downloads
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Home
68: Home
69: Home
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Home
75: Home
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Member Screenshots
80: News Archive
81: Member Screenshots
82: Community Forums
83: Downloads
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Downloads
87: Member Screenshots
88: Home
89: Downloads
90: Community Forums
91: Member Screenshots
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Member Screenshots
96: Member Screenshots
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: News Archive
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Member Screenshots
113: Member Screenshots
114: Community Forums
115: Member Screenshots
116: Downloads
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: News Archive
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Home
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Home
134: Home
135: Home
136: Home
137: News Archive
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Member Screenshots
145: Downloads
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Member Screenshots
149: Supporters
150: Photo Gallery
151: Home
152: Home
153: Home
154: Member Screenshots
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Member Screenshots
159: Community Forums
160: Member Screenshots
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Member Screenshots
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: News
167: News Archive
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: News Archive
176: News Archive
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Home
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: News Archive
188: Member Screenshots
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Downloads
195: Home
196: Member Screenshots
197: Home
198: Home
199: Member Screenshots
200: Home
201: Member Screenshots
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Member Screenshots
205: Member Screenshots
206: Member Screenshots
207: Home
208: Home
209: Home
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Home
214: Member Screenshots
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Home
222: Member Screenshots
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Member Screenshots
232: Community Forums
233: Member Screenshots
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Home
241: Tell a Friend
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: News Archive
247: Community Forums
248: Member Screenshots
249: Photo Gallery
250: News Archive
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Member Screenshots
254: Member Screenshots
255: Photo Gallery
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Home
261: Home
262: Member Screenshots
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Downloads
268: News Archive
269: Member Screenshots
270: Home
271: Member Screenshots
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Photo Gallery
275: Community Forums
276: Member Screenshots
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Member Screenshots
281: Downloads
282: Home
283: Member Screenshots
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Home
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: Member Screenshots
291: Member Screenshots
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Home
303: News Archive
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Downloads
312: Home
313: Home
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Home
317: Home
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Your Account
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Home
325: Member Screenshots
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: Contact
330: Community Forums
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: Member Screenshots
334: News Archive
335: News Archive
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Home
340: Home
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Downloads
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Member Screenshots
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Member Screenshots
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Home
356: Home
357: Your Account
358: Home
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Home
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Home
366: Home
367: Home
368: Home
369: Community Forums
370: Downloads
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Member Screenshots
375: Member Screenshots
376: News Archive
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Your Account
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Home
388: Home
389: Home
390: Photo Gallery
391: Home
392: LinkToUs
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Home
397: Community Forums
398: Home
399: Home
400: Home
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Member Screenshots
404: Home
405: Home
406: Your Account
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: News Archive
410: Photo Gallery
411: Home
412: News Archive
413: Home
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Home
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: News Archive
422: Community Forums
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Home
431: Home
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Home
438: Community Forums
439: Photo Gallery
440: Member Screenshots
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Home
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Member Screenshots
448: Community Forums
449: Member Screenshots
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Home
453: Home
454: Member Screenshots
455: Community Forums
456: News Archive
457: Member Screenshots
458: Member Screenshots
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Member Screenshots
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Home
470: Home
471: Member Screenshots
472: Photo Gallery
473: Home
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Home
478: Member Screenshots
479: Photo Gallery
480: News Archive
481: Community Forums
482: News
483: Photo Gallery
484: Member Screenshots
485: Photo Gallery
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Member Screenshots
489: Home
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: News Archive
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: News Archive
497: Community Forums
498: Member Screenshots
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Member Screenshots
502: Member Screenshots
503: Downloads
504: News Archive
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Downloads
509: Photo Gallery
510: Member Screenshots
511: Photo Gallery
512: Community Forums
513: Member Screenshots
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: Home
517: Member Screenshots
518: Home
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Member Screenshots
523: Community Forums
524: Member Screenshots
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Home
528: Home
529: Community Forums
530: Photo Gallery
531: Downloads
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Member Screenshots
540: Community Forums
541: Member Screenshots
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Home
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Member Screenshots
549: Member Screenshots
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Home
555: Statistics
556: Member Screenshots
557: Member Screenshots
558: News
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Home
562: Home
563: Home
564: Community Forums
565: Home
566: Community Forums
567: Home
568: Home
569: Member Screenshots
570: Community Forums
571: Photo Gallery
572: Photo Gallery
573: Home
574: Member Screenshots
575: Photo Gallery
576: Home
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Home
584: Statistics
585: Home
586: Home
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Member Screenshots
590: News Archive
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Member Screenshots
595: Member Screenshots
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: Home
600: News Archive
601: Home
602: Community Forums
603: Home
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Photo Gallery
607: Community Forums
608: Home
609: Photo Gallery
610: Community Forums
611: Member Screenshots
612: Community Forums
613: Home
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Member Screenshots
617: Photo Gallery
618: Member Screenshots
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Member Screenshots
623: Community Forums
624: Downloads
625: Member Screenshots
626: Member Screenshots
627: Member Screenshots
628: Home
629: Community Forums
630: News Archive
631: Community Forums
632: Home
633: Community Forums
634: Member Screenshots
635: Member Screenshots
636: Home
637: News Archive
638: Community Forums
639: Home
640: Community Forums
641: Downloads
642: Photo Gallery
643: Community Forums
644: Member Screenshots
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Photo Gallery
649: Community Forums
650: Member Screenshots
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Downloads
656: Community Forums
657: Member Screenshots
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Downloads
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Home
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: Downloads
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: News Archive
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: News Archive
674: Downloads
675: Member Screenshots
676: Community Forums
677: Member Screenshots
678: Photo Gallery
679: Home
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Downloads
685: Photo Gallery
686: Member Screenshots
687: Home
688: Member Screenshots
689: Home
690: Home
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Member Screenshots
694: News
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Home
698: Member Screenshots
699: Community Forums
700: Home
701: Member Screenshots
702: News Archive
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Home
707: Home
708: Member Screenshots
709: Photo Gallery
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Member Screenshots
713: Home
714: Home
715: Home
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Home
719: Downloads
720: Home
721: Home
722: Home
723: Downloads
724: Home
725: Member Screenshots
726: Downloads
727: Community Forums
728: News
729: Community Forums
730: Home
731: Home
732: Community Forums
733: Photo Gallery
734: Home
735: Home
736: Community Forums
737: Home
738: Home
739: Community Forums
740: Home
741: Community Forums
742: Home
743: Photo Gallery
744: Home
745: Home
746: News Archive
747: Community Forums
748: Home
749: Community Forums
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Home
755: Community Forums
756: News Archive
757: Home
758: Member Screenshots
759: Home
760: Community Forums
761: Home
762: News Archive
763: Home
764: Home
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Community Forums
769: Home
770: Home
771: Community Forums
772: Home
773: Community Forums
774: Home
775: Community Forums
776: Home
777: Community Forums
778: Home
779: Member Screenshots
780: Community Forums
781: Home
782: Community Forums
783: News Archive
784: Member Screenshots
785: Community Forums
786: News Archive
787: Member Screenshots
788: Member Screenshots
789: Downloads
790: Community Forums
791: Member Screenshots
792: Home
793: Community Forums
794: Photo Gallery
795: Home
796: Home
797: News
798: Member Screenshots
799: News Archive
800: Home
801: Your Account
802: Community Forums
803: Community Forums
804: Home
805: Home
806: Community Forums
807: Home
808: News Archive
809: Community Forums
810: Community Forums
811: Photo Gallery
812: Community Forums
813: Home
814: Home
815: Home
816: News Archive
817: Member Screenshots
818: Home
819: Home
820: Home
821: Downloads
822: Home
823: Photo Gallery
824: Home
825: Community Forums
826: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID... :: Archived
A general meeting place for all pilots!
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Officer's Club

Topic Archived View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:45 am
Post subject: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

[img][/img]
This is a Cessna L19 Bird Dog (I believe). I am trying to find information out on this particular bird for a friend and this is my first stop on displaying this picture on as many mediums and sources as possible. I can't seem to find this bird listed on Joe Baughers site of aircraft serial numbers. Anyone have any other ideas where to search? I notice a small "Blackhorse" symbol at the top of the tail, similar to 11th ACR's. Anyone with clues can contact me via here or at my PM inbox.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:40 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

I dunno about that specific plane, but I can tell you a few things about the crash Smile First, the crash was most likely caused by loss of directional control. Second, either the power was at idle or the engine had quit at impact, as noted by the props bent back. Third, a fire started after impact near the aft left side of the engine, and burnt it's way up the front left side of the cabin.

As for more information on that aircraft, the NTSB's website is always a good place to start, but it's busy or down right now...

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Thanks for the info, Im having intenet problems myself, so I'll have to try the NTSB later.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Yeah, that was just me showing off from my Aviation Safety course :). But now I'm kind of interested in searching that specific crash. The NTSB doesn't have anything on it that I could find. Do you have any more information on the crash? When was it? where was it? where did you get the pics from?

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- XcalibeR
Yeah, that was just me showing off from my Aviation Safety course :). But now I'm kind of interested in searching that specific crash. The NTSB doesn't have anything on it that I could find. Do you have any more information on the crash? When was it? where was it? where did you get the pics from?


There is no more specific information available to augment the pics, which came from me. Including where (other than Vietnam) or when. That happens when you have some 500 pics that are ~35 years old and you served in two widely separate military regions. It is unknown if there was hostile fire involved or just mechanical failure, that's why we're asking.
For my money, the aircraft likely attempted to put down on the road and went wide. I also doubt that the insignia relates to the 11th Cav as this is an Air Force bird, the insignia is incomplete, and prancing black horses are a common theme anyway.
O-1's of the latest variant, L-19e's, ceased production in 1962, so this is an old airframe even if the latest variety. Almost certainly, it was written off as a combat loss and pitched at the Long Binh boneyard with nothing of it surviving.

And that is all I know about 'dat.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- Doug_Kibbey
For my money, the aircraft likely attempted to put down on the road and went wide.


That's probably not a bad guess. The steep bank and lack of a definate edge on the road suggests that it is, in fact, a road, not a runway. Also helping that idea is the drainage ditch in the background. It might be a bad picture or exposure, but it also looks like the road and drain are wet, which would help an already unstable plane into the ditch.

Also, after looking at those pics a bit more, I think I can justify myself a bit more on my previous information, and go a bit further. I'm pretty sure that the fire that occured in the engine started after the crash, as noted by the fact that it propogated up, instead of back. It might be possible, though, that there had been an engine fire, and the wind kept it inside the cowling until the aircraft crashed. Either way, it was a very hot fire to be able to scold and char the metal and deform the plastic of the windshield that much.

I am also pretty sure that the engine had in fact quit before touch down. Props that are bent back are almost always signs that the engine was at a low power setting when it hit. In this case, the slight bending of the right side prop versus the major deformation of the left side prop (closer to the camera) tells me that it was probably wind milling. The major fold in the left side prop was most likely caused when the plane went in the ditch, against those rocks.

A few other things to note. The wings and tail section look to have been mostly damaged by the impact, so I think we can rule out any mechanical fail of the airframe. The right cowling was probably also a casualty of the crash. Second, and on a different note, I noticed that in the back ground of the first image, there is a chapel, along with what looks to be either a VOR or Radar tower closer to the crash site. Both of these seem to point to the fact that it crashed right outside of a permanant air base. This is further supported by the fact that the fire on the aircraft was put out fairly quickly, becuase it didn't spread that far along the aircraft.

So where does that put us? Was the engine in fact failed, or was it idling for landing? If it was failed, what caused the failure? What started the fire? when did the fire start?

If I'm even close on those observations, then I could put forth one probable cause. Take it for what it's worth, cause it's most likely very wrong. Using the above information, I would take and gander at it and that perhaps the pilot, whether just after taking off or just arriving, noticed smoke coming into the cabin. To meet the emergency, he probably cut the fuel supply to the engine (to help control the fire), which would, of course, shut down the engine. Since he's so near a base, I would say he was trying to make a runway, decided he couldn't make it, tried for the road, and slid off the side. After crashing, the fire then propogated up the side of the plane while the fire squad got out there.

Makes for a good story, eh? Mr. Green

Don't take any of that story as a given. It is only what one college sophmore can come up with from looking at three old pictures. If you want to do a bit more research on the engine, the L-19 used a Continental O-470-11 engine. I think if there was a fuel line that goes along the left hand side of the engine, that would further support the findings I put forward.

I'm not fairing too well on finding any info on this crash on the web, so you might have to resort back to your own memory to try to figure out where and when this occured.

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:19 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

I research and documented an F-105D-31-RE that crashed here at Ft Irwin, 11 Feb 1964. No one knew anything till I found a partial serial number and tried looking for it on Joe Baughers web-site. He lists all miliatry planes built by serial number from 1921 to present. I could not find anything close. I'll be damned if I wont find out though. Doug showed me this picture and I thought I could find it within 10 minutes. The fact that I haven't has made me want to find it even more and I will. I have a contact that may be of some help, but it will probably take 2-3 weeks of research for him to find. But for free, I can't knock it.
Are we sure this is an L19? What is the differnece between it and an OE-1 and some of the other "Bird Dog" variations? Are those white phos rocket mounts under the wings that I see?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:31 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
I research and documented an F-105D-31-RE that crashed here at Ft Irwin, 11 Feb 1964. No one knew anything till I found a partial serial number and tried looking for it on Joe Baughers web-site. He lists all miliatry planes built by serial number from 1921 to present. I could not find anything close. I'll be damned if I wont find out though. Doug showed me this picture and I thought I could find it within 10 minutes. The fact that I haven't has made me want to find it even more and I will. I have a contact that may be of some help, but it will probably take 2-3 weeks of research for him to find. But for free, I can't knock it.
Are we sure this is an L19? What is the differnece between it and an OE-1 and some of the other "Bird Dog" variations? Are those white phos rocket mounts under the wings that I see?


Jeff,
All L-19's were based on the Cessna 170. The L-19 designation seems to have been dropped officially after Korea and changed to O-1. But as a type, there were several models of "L-19", the last being the "e" model, as noted. You will see claims that L-19's were long gone by the '70's in VN (and correctly, out of the Army altogether by '74), but we know they were around....
A VNAF pilot made the only unarrested landing of one on the U.S.S Midway with no barrier with four members of his family in a well documented and filmed landing during the evacuation of Saigon in '75. Numerous pics can be found of this feat on the 'net.

The O-2 was the Cessna "Skymaster" or "push me/pull me" with the twin boom, and are more associated, now, with Vietnam, but the O-1 was very much still around.

If it helps, I have "Googled" the bejeezus out of that number and all variants of type designators to no effect yet, over the course of several years. Pounded all the websites featuring O-1's and L-19's too. Official records don't always tell the whole story...and neither do tail numbers...this is especially true of Vietnam (and that number is unlike anything I've seen on the usual L-19's with pics around).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:38 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

In my numerous "travels" via the internet to research Chuck Yeagers F-100F and that F105D that crashed here, I have made a few contacts that know "Wingy Thingys" and I plan to contact them tomorrow if my work computer is working, (much of Ft Irwins server was down today). I have now become officially infatuated with finding out the history on this airplane, even if it is only limited history. Besides, I've researched everything here at Irwin, I need a new challenge to occupy my down time. Besides, I told you I'd find out for you, what kind of friend would I be if I didn't follow through. I only posted it here first because I've found that sometimes the answers to questions, can sometimes be found close to home rather than searching far and wide, (like I might end up doing). Gotta run.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Thud68
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 369
Location: AZ USA
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Back in 1988 I got curious about what happened to an F-105D I crewed at Korat RTAFB from Feb68 to Sep68. First I called the AMARC storage center at Davis-Monthan AFB here in Tucson. All they could tell me was that there records indicated it was not physically there, and that it had been involved in an accident while assigned to an Air Guard outfit in the DC area. They did provide me with this address for further info:
Department of the Air Force/ Headquarters Air Force Inspection and Safety Center/ Norton AFB, CA/ 92409-7001.
What I got from them was the crash package on that plane to included radio transcripts between Coast Guard, Pilot, and Tower during the incident. Even some pictures of parts brought up from the bottom of Chesepeake Bay. Pilot survived, plane didn't.
If you have the serial number or tail number and the date and location of the incident I would try the folks at Norton. Remember, my quest was in 1988 and things may have changed a bit. May also have been a small cost involved, with age CRS has set in ( can't remember s***).
Anywho, good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
" Refuel my plane and load my guns"

Hiroyoshi Nishizawa
" The Devil of Rabaul"
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

OK, I admit I thought this would be easier than it has turned out to be. The Historical Freedom of Information Act Manager, Louie Alley at Kirtland AFB couldn't turn up anything on this bird. He was the one that helped me find records on F-105's and F-100's that were lost, and I didn't have pictures of them. However I'm on the trail! I have since contacted 16 other sources and hope for positive results soon, esspecially from one that wrote a detailed book on the Bird Dog's. I will keep you posted.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

One of my "sources" has contacted me about the airplane in the picture above. He is about 90% sure about the info he provided me. First, the plane was built in 1956, as one in a batch of 74 birds for that particular contract run, (serial numbers 56-4161 thru 56-4235). Not being able to see the final digit of the tail number, he has narrowed it be between 56-4180 and 56-4189. However in his "files" he shows that 180, 185, and 186 were NOT listed as being on the "Known Destroyed Birddog Lists". That narrows it to one of 7 serial numbers that are left. The plane was also built originally as an L-19E. He says the picture shows a USAF Tactical Air Support Squadron (TASS) aircraft, and these were called O-1E's by the Air Force.
The one thing he didn't say, was which TASS unit it was. I guess you'd have to look up area of operations for each unit and try to piece it together from that.
Hey "Thud 68" did you ever find out the ultimate demise of your bird? If not, tell me the tail number and I'll snoop around some.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Here is another bit of information found on this Bird Dog. I contacted the International Bird Dog Association and a number of its members for help. Below is one of the responses. I hope it helps somewhat. I may get more info and if I do, I'll post it here.

Jim, Ron, guys...
Looking at the photos, the last digit of the tail number is missing. The little logo at the top of the vertical may help track it down. Don't knmow what TASS used the little horsey... It's not Seahorses and not 1st Cav art because it's an Air Force E-model from the 1956 contract series that was built in 57: The number is 0 (of course over 10 years old airframe) plus the 6 from the '56 contract run plus the 4181 or 82, 83, 84, or 87, 88, 89. Only 4180, 4185 and 4186 are shown as not destroyed in service. All others are listed as destroyed. And only 80, 85 and 86 did not get the "Vietnam" modifications with the dual FM command set installations plus other radio mods. Those three may have remained Stateside - and that's why they're not shown as destroyed (see Minard's book, pp 208 and 216 for info; s/n range 23815 - 23826.) Several in that series got the self-sealing tanks and Geise gear, too. All mods were made under an Air Force modifications contract, so that seems to support AF ownership as does the use of the rotating beacon in a cup on the top of the cabin. As far as I know, only AF did that for visibility with the fast-movers. Too bad the last digit is missing in the photo of the tail.


If it was Air Force, that may explain why no joy in Army records.


Ron, since he contacted you, if any of this makes sense to you, do you want to pass this on to SFC Jeff Button?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Doug, this is where that serial number for the Bird Dog falls into. Because the bird was over 10 years old/modified, it got a "0" as its first digit. The "6" is for the year (1956), and then the 418_ is the serial number. Thats why we were having problems finding it initially. My guess is that the bird in the picruee is either 4181, 82, 83, 84, 87, 88, or 89. Still don't know the unit though. See the excerpt below that I cut and paste from Joe Baughers site;

56-4161/4235 Cessna L-19E Bird Dog
4173 and 4174 transferred to USN as OE-1 BuNo 144663/144664.
Some sold to Thailand.
Redesignated O-1E in 1962.
4164 to N6234
4208 on display at Commado Air Park, Hurlburt Field, FL in 1973
4211 to Thai AF
4215 to Thai AF

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Thanks, Jeff...
I thought it was pretty clear this was an Air Force plane from the color and side markings (All Army one's I've seen from this ere were OD green).

No pic I'm in possession of (I have four) show any greater detail that would be useful in the ID. Pity about the tail number, especially. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Officer's Club
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next

Archive Revive
Username:
This is an archived topic - your reply will not be appended here.
Instead, a new topic will be generated in the active forum.
The new topic will provide a reference link to this archived topic.