±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 717
Total: 717
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Downloads
07: News
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Member Screenshots
15: News
16: Member Screenshots
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Downloads
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Member Screenshots
25: Home
26: Treasury
27: Member Screenshots
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: News Archive
35: Downloads
36: Home
37: Home
38: Member Screenshots
39: Member Screenshots
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Downloads
43: Downloads
44: News
45: Member Screenshots
46: Downloads
47: Home
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Your Account
53: Community Forums
54: News Archive
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Search
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: News Archive
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Member Screenshots
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: News
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Member Screenshots
78: Member Screenshots
79: News Archive
80: Community Forums
81: News Archive
82: Community Forums
83: Member Screenshots
84: Member Screenshots
85: Community Forums
86: LinkToUs
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Member Screenshots
94: Community Forums
95: Member Screenshots
96: News Archive
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Member Screenshots
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Home
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Photo Gallery
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Member Screenshots
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Downloads
121: Community Forums
122: Downloads
123: Member Screenshots
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Member Screenshots
128: Community Forums
129: Member Screenshots
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Downloads
133: Member Screenshots
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Member Screenshots
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: News Archive
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Member Screenshots
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Photo Gallery
157: Home
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Photo Gallery
164: Member Screenshots
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Member Screenshots
168: Community Forums
169: Downloads
170: Community Forums
171: Downloads
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Member Screenshots
176: Community Forums
177: Member Screenshots
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Member Screenshots
182: Community Forums
183: News Archive
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Downloads
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Member Screenshots
202: Home
203: News Archive
204: News Archive
205: Community Forums
206: Member Screenshots
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Home
211: Member Screenshots
212: Member Screenshots
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: News
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Home
223: Member Screenshots
224: News Archive
225: Member Screenshots
226: Statistics
227: Home
228: Member Screenshots
229: News Archive
230: Member Screenshots
231: Member Screenshots
232: News
233: Downloads
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Member Screenshots
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: News Archive
240: Community Forums
241: Search
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: LinkToUs
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Member Screenshots
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Downloads
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: News
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Photo Gallery
263: Member Screenshots
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Downloads
268: News Archive
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Member Screenshots
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Member Screenshots
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Downloads
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Downloads
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Member Screenshots
300: Community Forums
301: Member Screenshots
302: Community Forums
303: Contact
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: LinkToUs
307: Community Forums
308: Member Screenshots
309: Downloads
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Downloads
315: Photo Gallery
316: Photo Gallery
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Home
322: Supporters
323: Downloads
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Member Screenshots
327: News
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Your Account
333: News Archive
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: LinkToUs
339: Community Forums
340: News Archive
341: Home
342: Member Screenshots
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: News
346: News Archive
347: Member Screenshots
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Member Screenshots
352: Community Forums
353: News Archive
354: Member Screenshots
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Your Account
358: Member Screenshots
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Members List
362: Community Forums
363: Photo Gallery
364: Community Forums
365: Photo Gallery
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: News Archive
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Downloads
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: News Archive
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Downloads
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: News Archive
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Member Screenshots
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Downloads
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: News Archive
397: Community Forums
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: News Archive
403: Community Forums
404: Contact
405: Community Forums
406: Member Screenshots
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Downloads
411: Community Forums
412: Member Screenshots
413: Member Screenshots
414: Photo Gallery
415: News Archive
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Downloads
419: Member Screenshots
420: Community Forums
421: Home
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Downloads
431: Member Screenshots
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Member Screenshots
443: Community Forums
444: Photo Gallery
445: Your Account
446: Downloads
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: Member Screenshots
453: Home
454: Community Forums
455: Member Screenshots
456: News Archive
457: Home
458: Community Forums
459: Member Screenshots
460: News Archive
461: Statistics
462: Member Screenshots
463: Community Forums
464: News Archive
465: News Archive
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: News Archive
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Photo Gallery
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Member Screenshots
479: Home
480: News Archive
481: Search
482: Member Screenshots
483: Community Forums
484: Member Screenshots
485: Community Forums
486: News
487: Community Forums
488: Member Screenshots
489: Community Forums
490: Member Screenshots
491: Community Forums
492: Member Screenshots
493: Community Forums
494: Downloads
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: News
498: Downloads
499: Community Forums
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Member Screenshots
503: Downloads
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: News Archive
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Home
511: Member Screenshots
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Member Screenshots
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: News Archive
519: Downloads
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Downloads
525: News Archive
526: Member Screenshots
527: Statistics
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Member Screenshots
533: Community Forums
534: News Archive
535: Downloads
536: Member Screenshots
537: Community Forums
538: News Archive
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Member Screenshots
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Downloads
548: Member Screenshots
549: Community Forums
550: Member Screenshots
551: News Archive
552: News Archive
553: Photo Gallery
554: Member Screenshots
555: Community Forums
556: Home
557: News Archive
558: Member Screenshots
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Member Screenshots
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Photo Gallery
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Downloads
569: Member Screenshots
570: Downloads
571: News Archive
572: News Archive
573: Member Screenshots
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Member Screenshots
578: Community Forums
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Home
585: Community Forums
586: Home
587: Community Forums
588: News Archive
589: Photo Gallery
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Photo Gallery
593: News Archive
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: Member Screenshots
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Member Screenshots
604: Community Forums
605: Photo Gallery
606: Photo Gallery
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Photo Gallery
613: Member Screenshots
614: Community Forums
615: News Archive
616: Home
617: Home
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: News Archive
622: News Archive
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Photo Gallery
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Photo Gallery
629: News Archive
630: Community Forums
631: Home
632: Community Forums
633: Treasury
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: News Archive
637: News Archive
638: Member Screenshots
639: Community Forums
640: Home
641: Community Forums
642: Member Screenshots
643: Photo Gallery
644: Home
645: Photo Gallery
646: Community Forums
647: Photo Gallery
648: Photo Gallery
649: Photo Gallery
650: News Archive
651: Member Screenshots
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Home
655: Community Forums
656: Statistics
657: Community Forums
658: Photo Gallery
659: News Archive
660: Downloads
661: News Archive
662: Community Forums
663: Home
664: News Archive
665: Home
666: Photo Gallery
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Photo Gallery
670: News
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Home
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Member Screenshots
682: Photo Gallery
683: News Archive
684: Home
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: News Archive
690: Member Screenshots
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Member Screenshots
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Home
697: Photo Gallery
698: Community Forums
699: Home
700: Contact
701: Community Forums
702: Downloads
703: Home
704: Contact
705: Photo Gallery
706: Community Forums
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Member Screenshots
713: Member Screenshots
714: Home
715: News Archive
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
servicepub
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

clive @ servicepub.com
Photo is already posted at ramtank.ca, click on Ram Survivors. Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

Just sent you the pics via email....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

Is this not a great display area? Very tasteful and not a lot of clutter:


Dutch AMX from the front:


...and overhead.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

Hereby to be known as the "Gavin-Lingle" (by me, anyway), I took some shots of the YPR-765 family (this may be a later version...I'm not an expert). The more I examined this vehicle, the more I wonder if we missed the boat on a satisfactory M113-M114-XM800 scout vehicle (prior to the Bradley) in a tight package. The closer I look, the more appealing this vehicle is. I don't know the service record, but I should think there would have been a role for this in our service, at least at one time.




I have to agree with you about a possible scout vehicle. Razz I remember the Army looked at a number of modified M113s and I think in the end all the testing came down to not enough money to do much. Sad What little the Scouts did get when into the XM800 project Razz Razz and as we all know, that ended up being cancelled also due to a lack of funds Crying or Very sad and other B.S. excesses. Evil or Very Mad

Again thanks for the great photos!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

It is a YPR-765PRI (Pantser Rups Infanterie), could be the normal infantry variant or a recce one which has an other arrangement of seats in the back.

For the recce units this verhicle was a interim solution awaiting the arrival of a new recce verhicle which finally arrived in december 2005 at 11 tkbat in form of the Fennek.

When the wind was good you could hear the ''enemy'' scouts leaving the assembly area because of the high pitch noise the engine made.

Other variants (past and present)of the YPR are;
YPR-765PRCO C1, C2, C3 and C4
YPR-765PRBDR (Battle damage repair)
YPR-765PRV (cargo, for the supply sgt)
YPR-765PRGWT (for the medic)
YPR-765PRMR (with a mortar behind it and racks for the ammo inside)
YPR-765PRRDR (with a battlefield surveillance radar, not in use anymore)
And a variant for the military police

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- L.Delsing
It is a YPR-765PRI (Pantser Rups Infanterie), could be the normal infantry variant or a recce one which has an other arrangement of seats in the back.

For the recce units this verhicle was a interim solution awaiting the arrival of a new recce verhicle which finally arrived in december 2005 at 11 tkbat in form of the Fennek.

When the wind was good you could hear the ''enemy'' scouts leaving the assembly area because of the high pitch noise the engine made.

Other variants (past and present)of the YPR are;
YPR-765PRCO C1, C2, C3 and C4
YPR-765PRBDR (Battle damage repair)
YPR-765PRV (cargo, for the supply sgt)
YPR-765PRGWT (for the medic)
YPR-765PRMR (with a mortar behind it and racks for the ammo inside)
YPR-765PRRDR (with a battlefield surveillance radar, not in use anymore)
And a variant for the military police

Regards,
Lesley


Thanks, Lesley...I'm looking for more background on this vehicle...a good design, I think, that got passed by without the consideration it deserves.

Oh, I got to eyeball two prototype Fenneks...one in good shape, the other worn slap out and ratty inside. Quite an interesting vehicle. I have one interior shot of the driver area (through the thick glass) that leaves a lot to be desired. I lust to drive one of these, though.

BTW, I got to poke around in a Leo 2A6 on the same trip...couldn't take any pics, but was generally impressed. One thing that's difficult to convey to other tankers, past and present, is the "compactness of size" of the crew area for the gunner and TC. Hoo-Boy!....it's mighty-tighty in thar'! The restraining bar for the gunner was interesting...I wouldn't have thought he had that much room to bounce around anyway (I was reminded of amusement park rides...."You must be this tall....or thin...to ride this ride"). The loader's area is small, compared to the old Pattons, but the right side of this vehicle is smaller than any other AFV I've ever been on. Like the Abrams, the turret size on the outside is NO indication of the amenities inside! I wish I had pics, but understandably that was forbidden.
Me likey, though! Wink

Here is the Leopard driver simulator:

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- Doug_Kibbey
- Hellfish6
I still think Centurions are the coolest tanks ever.


Well, just for you, then.... Smile


Cheers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:07 am
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- Doug_Kibbey
- Hellfish6
I still think Centurions are the coolest tanks ever.


Well, just for you, then.... Smile




A Centurion pillbox ???
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
- Doug_Kibbey
- Hellfish6
I still think Centurions are the coolest tanks ever.


Well, just for you, then.... Smile




A Centurion pillbox ???


Nahhh...just a static display. But only my good manners as a guest prevented me from demanding the CO explain why he doesn't have some one with a leaf blower, or at least a broom, follow the guys who mow the grass.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort


Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: God save us from ambivalent curators

- Doug_Kibbey


Nahhh...just a static display. But only my good manners as a guest prevented me from demanding the CO explain why he doesn't have some one with a leaf blower, or at least a broom, follow the guys who mow the grass.



It's not my museum ... but I hate to see any artifact dying of neglect.

The problem with a ground level mount will be the accumulation of water and surface rust along the bottom edges. The paint will flake and then serious rust will form. Any components that were in good condition (which of course the Dutch tankers can testify) will deteriorate rapidly. Not only do the grass clippings and mower scuffs harm the paint, but snow and ice drifts 3 or 4 months of the year.

Give the museum credit for making it a kid's level climbing gym, but the historical value of a Centurion turret will be lost in a few years (if it hasn't already). I'd encourage the museum to cut down the sloped edge of the mound to elevate the turret ring 20 or 25cm above the grade level. Even facing the slope with brick will keep the soil drier.

No doubt the current management has bigger problems, it is important for them to know that artifacts that are readily available one decade are suddenly quite scarce in only a few generations. (How much effort has been invested just in Sherman rebuilds in the last decade?) People tend to abuse military exhibits as a matter of course; would a Dutch gallery treat an Old Masters painting the same way?
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

I don't know the history of this particular vehicle, but current management's attitude toward it might be influenced by the fact that they have at least three intact Cents (that I know about, having seen them) at the same installation. I think I recall Marcel saying something about this having been part of a whole display that was rendered redundant with the acquisition of the pristine example now housed indoors (which was apparently seized from a private party that somehow failed to mention it to the authorities).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: God save us from ambivalent curators

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
- Doug_Kibbey




It's not my museum ... but I hate to see any artifact dying of neglect.

The problem with a ground level mount will be the accumulation of water and surface rust along the bottom edges. The paint will flake and then serious rust will form. Any components that were in good condition (which of course the Dutch tankers can testify) will deteriorate rapidly. Not only do the grass clippings and mower scuffs harm the paint, but snow and ice drifts 3 or 4 months of the year.

No doubt the current management has bigger problems, it is important for them to know that artifacts that are readily available one decade are suddenly quite scarce in only a few generations. (How much effort has been invested just in Sherman rebuilds in the last decade?) People tend to abuse military exhibits as a matter of course; would a Dutch gallery treat an Old Masters painting the same way?


Unfortunately I know........ Sad Two examples, one in Oirschot and one at the cavalry museum Amersfoort.

1. Since years we had an old rusty Leopard 1V at our battalion which didn't work. Some platoonsergeant with the help of the technical SM tried to restore this old tank. It was not possible because everything was rustm rust and more rust. The result of years in the rain etc. With the help of some friends of the tech SM we managed to change our old Leopard 1V for a ''brandnew'' working one from the war reserve. It was still packed with preservation grease and plastic and it worked perfect. The platoonsergeant kept this one in the same verhicle shed as the Leopard 2A5/6s to prevent rain etc coming in.

But the new battalionsadjutant (under protest of the pltsgts) decided it should be in front of the building of our battalion. Well, its now one year later and guess, it won't start anymore, the stabilisation system don't work anymore..........

2. At Amersfoort they reveived the second Leopard 2A4 which was delivered to the army (the first one we sold to Austria), also from the war reserve and in perfect working order. Instead of putting it in the hall were it is dry and safe from the elements it is outside in wind and rain. I'am afraid that within a couple of years this one will be in a very bad condition also.

Barbarians, that is what they are......

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

[quote="Doug_Kibbey"]
Thanks, Lesley...I'm looking for more background on this vehicle...a good design, I think, that got passed by without the consideration it deserves.

BTW, I got to poke around in a Leo 2A6 on the same trip...couldn't take any pics, but was generally impressed. One thing that's difficult to convey to other tankers, past and present, is the "compactness of size" of the crew area for the gunner and TC. Hoo-Boy!....it's mighty-tighty in thar'! The restraining bar for the gunner was interesting...I wouldn't have thought he had that much room to bounce around anyway (I was reminded of amusement park rides...."You must be this tall....or thin...to ride this ride"). The loader's area is small, compared to the old Pattons, but the right side of this vehicle is smaller than any other AFV I've ever been on. Like the Abrams, the turret size on the outside is NO indication of the amenities inside! I wish I had pics, but understandably that was forbidden.
Me likey, though! Wink

Here is the Leopard driver simulator:


Hello Doug,
Fennek is indeed a nice verhicle, our recce platoon of our battalion will be deployed in december to Uruzgan (afghanistan) with Fenneks. We will see how they function over there.

Strange that they didn't let you take pictures, on the yearly army open day whole tribes can make pictures inside, outside, you name it and it is possible.

I think I know what you mean. Years ago we had the possibility to visit the US army storage depot in Vriezeveen were they had M1A1(HA) tanks. We were amazed at the space they had inside! Stillm I have no problems inside the Leopard 2. I'am 1,93 meters and I had a gunner which was 1,90 meters and it still fit. When I close the hatch I have a centimeter left above my helmet.

During an exercise in Germany we managed to get 6 men inside the Leopard 2A5, the normal gunner, driver and commander positions and three on the loaders place. We were at an assembly area . It was very cold outside and some of the crew of an other tank of my platoon were ''visiting'' my tank. At the loadersarea one was standing and cooking macaroni with meatballs, one was sitting on the ground below the coax machinegun and one was sitting in the basket for the empty cartridges. Hatches closed and heater on, oh ja and they were all smokers.......

If possible, what photos do you like from the inside?

regards,
Lesley

P.S. It can take a week for replying because I have a small exercise in the ardennes.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- L.Delsing
Strange that they didn't let you take pictures, on the yearly army open day whole tribes can make pictures inside, outside, you name it and it is possible.

I think I know what you mean. Years ago we had the possibility to visit the US army storage depot in Vriezeveen were they had M1A1(HA) tanks. We were amazed at the space they had inside! Stillm I have no problems inside the Leopard 2. I'am 1,93 meters and I had a gunner which was 1,90 meters and it still fit. When I close the hatch I have a centimeter left above my helmet.

If possible, what photos do you like from the inside?

regards,
Lesley

P.S. It can take a week for replying because I have a small exercise in the ardennes.


Hi Lesley...
Yes, the Fennek looked to be a very capable vehicle...and beaucoup sex appeal...I was kinda' reminded of the APC in Aliens (but with actual ground clearance....) Driver's spot is very.....cozy.

I suppose they were just being cautions at the post about pics...everybody from the armor school thingy was at a big game and we were kinda' informally poking around one in a shop bay. Pity about no pics because the light was kinda' bad in there and I couldn't see much, expecially in the gunner's "cave".
Any pics from the fighting compartment would be welcome (and I bet the forum would like to see 'em too...hint-hint) No rush...I leave for Brasil again by about the 12th.

Say, I noticed two things: I didn't see anyway to manually open the breech of the main gun...is there one?
And, where is the switch for the ammo doors for the loader? It's a knee thing on the M1, but I didn't see anything similar on the Leo.

Well, whenever you get a chance (I'll PM you my email, too)

Speaking of older Leopards, there was this 'un....



Cheers!
D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum