±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 436
Total: 436
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Downloads
04: Downloads
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Member Screenshots
19: Statistics
20: Your Account
21: Community Forums
22: News
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: CPGlang
28: Community Forums
29: Statistics
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Downloads
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Statistics
60: CPGlang
61: Community Forums
62: CPGlang
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Statistics
80: Community Forums
81: News Archive
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: CPGlang
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Photo Gallery
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Statistics
122: Your Account
123: Photo Gallery
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: CPGlang
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Statistics
133: CPGlang
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: CPGlang
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Downloads
143: Downloads
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Statistics
152: Member Screenshots
153: CPGlang
154: News
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Photo Gallery
162: Downloads
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: CPGlang
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Photo Gallery
190: CPGlang
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: CPGlang
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Statistics
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: CPGlang
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: CPGlang
213: Home
214: Photo Gallery
215: CPGlang
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Photo Gallery
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Member Screenshots
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: CPGlang
239: Home
240: Downloads
241: Downloads
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Statistics
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Downloads
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Member Screenshots
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Photo Gallery
262: Home
263: Home
264: Downloads
265: Photo Gallery
266: Home
267: Home
268: Downloads
269: Community Forums
270: CPGlang
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Photo Gallery
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Statistics
287: News Archive
288: Community Forums
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Photo Gallery
293: Community Forums
294: CPGlang
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: News Archive
306: Community Forums
307: CPGlang
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Member Screenshots
318: Member Screenshots
319: Home
320: Community Forums
321: Statistics
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Photo Gallery
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Contact
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: Home
345: Home
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Statistics
349: Photo Gallery
350: Home
351: CPGlang
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Downloads
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Statistics
366: Home
367: Home
368: News Archive
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Home
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: CPGlang
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Statistics
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Statistics
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Member Screenshots
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Downloads
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Photo Gallery
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Home
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Photo Gallery
422: CPGlang
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Home
429: Home
430: Photo Gallery
431: Statistics
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:51 am
Post subject: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

I dont just post rare old armor, I post rare "new" armor as well! Per the article below, there are only 44 of these in the U.S. inventory. There were these 6 in the 36th ENG BDE, 4th ID motor pool and 6 more in a motorpool next door. When I was here in 2000 with 3-66th Armor, 4th ID, civilians brought one to our motor pool as a "demo" and it was pretty neat. Now they are actually stationed here. I haven't seen any in the 1st Cav area motor pools but I'd bet they have some too. I was in this motor pool to photograph an M4A3 that I cant seem to find a serial number for. I purchased some sandpaper this afternoon however and that serial wont be hidden long! Below is some info on the Wolverine.

The M104 Wolverine Heavy Assault Bridge is an armored combat engineering vehicle designed to provide deployable bridge capability for units engaged in military operations.

For over a quarter of a century the US Army has made use of armored bridgelaying vehicles based on the M60/M48 Patton series of tanks. In recent years, however, the Army discovered that the aging M60 AVLB (Armored Vehicle Launched Bridge) was too slow to keep up with the M1 Abrams during field maneuvers. Additionally, the M1 was so heavy that it could safely cross the AVLB's bridge only at a very slow speed.

Program development for a new armored bridgelaying vehicle began in 1983, and by 1994 General Dynamics Land Systems had been awarded a contract. The first prototype vehicles were being tested by 1996, and the first production models were delivered to the Army by 2003.

Because the Wolverine is essentially an M1A2 SEP tank with bridgelaying gear instead of a turret it shares virtually all of the parent vehicle's speed, mobility, survivability, and automotive components. This commonality was a key design factor in the Wolverine's development. The Wolverine also features an advanced communication package designed to keep it in contact with local field commanders. However, the vehicle itself is completely unarmed.

The Wolverine is operated by two crewmen who sit within the hull. Both crewmen have access to the bridging controls, while the bridge itself is carried in two sections above the hull. Once a bridging site is chosen the vehicle securely anchors itself in place with a spade. The two sections of the bridge are joined together, and then the entire bridge is extended across the obstacle and dropped into place. During launch the crewmen have the ability to make minor corrections if needed. Once operations are complete the Wolverine drives across the bridge and retrieves it from the other side simply by reversing the process. The bridge can be launched in under 5 minutes or retrieved in less than 10, all without the crewmen ever leaving the safety of their vehicle.

Once launched, the 26 meter bridge can support a 70 ton vehicle moving at 16 km/h. The Wolverine allows even the heaviest of vehicles to cross craters, ditches, and even partially damaged bridges at combat speed. This mobility is a decisive advantage for armored units.

To date the U.S. Army has received 44 Wolverines, which have been distributed to a few select engineer units. The Army had originally intended to purchase 465 vehicles, however budget cuts and the recent shift in philosophy toward a lighter fighting force have cast the future of the Wolverine program in doubt. Currently the Army does not plan to purchase any more Wolverines, but it has reserved the right to restart production in the future if necessary.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

"The M104 Wolverine Heavy Assault Bridge is an armored combat engineering vehicle designed to provide deployable bridge capability for units engaged in military operations.
...
However, the vehicle itself is completely unarmed."

Yikes!! That's got to change. If this is such a rare bird, the opposing forces are going to know it too. Their troops will do what they can to harass or attack it. Even a .50 in a protected remote controlled weapons pod would be an improvement over nothing.
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:54 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

I agree, I was surprised to see that it wasn't armed at all. Especially since its such a high-dollar vehicle. I wouldn't want to crew this.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:32 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

Lets face it the M9 ACE is the same. I was amused to read in a combat report the following description of it 'one man, alone, unarmed'

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:57 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

Hi Folks!

The proto-type M-48 AVLB had two cuplo mounted M2 50 cal machine guns. The production versions didn't have them. The M-60 AVLB were also unarmed.

That vehicle should never be sent out by its self. There should be more than enough firepower around it to ensure the crew only has to work on getting the bridge down in the right spot so over vehicles can cross ASAP.

Jeff, super thanks for this set of photos. I have hopes of some day trying to scratch build a Wolverine sense none of the model companies will most likly never do one.

It is my understand that in place of buying more Wolverines, the Army funded a program to upgrade the MLC 60 bridges on the M-48/60 AVLBs to a MLC of 70. Much cheaper to buy upgraded folding bridges than rebuild a M-1 into a Wolverine.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:14 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

It is my understand that in place of buying more Wolverines, the Army funded a program to upgrade the MLC 60 bridges on the M-48/60 AVLBs to a MLC of 70. Much cheaper to buy upgraded folding bridges than rebuild a M-1 into a Wolverine.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!


But you loose the advantage of commonality and have to continue stocking parts in the system for the older vehicles that you would not otherwise have to have.

I can see and advantage to modifying the older AVLBs in the short term but as there are extra M1 chassis in the inventory I would think that converting some to support vehicles such as AVLBs, recovery vehicles and engineering vehicles would make sense.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:28 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

But there is commonality with the old AVLB's, it's called the Hercules M88A2 and they have a very good track record. We also have plenty of M88A1's too. If you look closely at the M60 AVLB/AVLM systems they are now using M88 components when rebuilt. Much cheaper than converting old M1 hulls, Also cheaper to operate. BTW, the Wolverine uses the old M1 hull, just like the SEP's. One automotive difference is the the hydraulic pump is driven off the angle drive of the transmission and the generator was moved to the Auxillary Gear Box from what I saw in 98. What the Wolverine has is speed, but with the current fight we are in it's a moot point.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:57 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I can see and advantage to modifying the older AVLBs in the short term but as there are extra M1 chassis in the inventory I would think that converting some to support vehicles such as AVLBs, recovery vehicles and engineering vehicles would make sense.


I have to agree with that Bob. However the problem is a lack of funds. The Wolverine and the Grizzle are programs that were cut to free up funding for the Stryker FOVs and has yet to be restored.

It's like Joe D said, their are just not needed in the current fight. Look at the M1117 ASV. It was also one of those programs that was cut to free up funding for the Stryker FOVs. If's fund has been restored some because they are needed.

This is another one of those things where funding is the controlling factor and not common sense.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:05 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I can see and advantage to modifying the older AVLBs in the short term but as there are extra M1 chassis in the inventory I would think that converting some to support vehicles such as AVLBs, recovery vehicles and engineering vehicles would make sense.


I have to agree with that Bob. However the problem is a lack of funds. The Wolverine and the Grizzle are programs that were cut to free up funding for the Stryker FOVs and has yet to be restored.

It's like Joe D said, their are just not needed in the current fight. Look at the M1117 ASV. It was also one of those programs that was cut to free up funding for the Stryker FOVs. If's fund has been restored some because they are needed.

This is another one of those things where funding is the controlling factor and not common sense.
Sgt, Scouts out!


I think there is very little that is not controlled by short term funding issues.

I'm noticing a trend that we saw in the 60s where long term programs are being sacrificed to pay for growing operational costs while trying to stay within lower 'acceptable' budgets. Crying or Very sad I remember living in the aftermath of that on the flightline in the mid 70s with not enough parts because although they bought a new fighter ( the F-15) they scimped on the supporting kit to hold the cost of the program down.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:19 am
Post subject: Re: M104 Wolverine at Ft Hood...

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I think there is very little that is not controlled by short term funding issues.

I'm noticing a trend that we saw in the 60s where long term programs are being sacrificed to pay for growing operational costs while trying to stay within lower 'acceptable' budgets. Crying or Very sad I remember living in the aftermath of that on the flightline in the mid 70s with not enough parts because although they bought a new fighter ( the F-15) they scimped on the supporting kit to hold the cost of the program down.


The 1970s! The last half was hard on all of DOD. I remember reading about new F-16s coming off the production line in Ft. Worth. The Air Force would install an engine, send the aircraft up for a test flight and then remove the engine so it could installed in the next aircraft. The Army was putting a lot of it's available funding into the new Abrams/Bradley vehicles and there was very little funds for very much of any thing else. God help the AFV Crewman who lost a tool needed to work on his vehicle because the supply room didn't have any funds to buy replacement tools.

Hell, costs and the need from funds for other programs is the only reason the Navy has retired the F-14 Tomcats. I have heard, but I have not confired it, that the S-3 Vikings have been or are being retired, or there is a plan to retire them for the same reason.

All this is an outstanding example of why the DOD doesn't always buy good things at the right time. Sad
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum