±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 896
Total: 896
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Downloads
04: Photo Gallery
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Downloads
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Downloads
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Photo Gallery
26: Photo Gallery
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Downloads
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Downloads
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Your Account
39: Home
40: Member Screenshots
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Member Screenshots
45: Member Screenshots
46: Photo Gallery
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Member Screenshots
50: Community Forums
51: News Archive
52: News Archive
53: Home
54: Member Screenshots
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Member Screenshots
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Downloads
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Member Screenshots
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Member Screenshots
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: News Archive
78: Member Screenshots
79: Downloads
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Member Screenshots
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: News
91: Community Forums
92: News Archive
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Downloads
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Member Screenshots
106: Member Screenshots
107: Statistics
108: News Archive
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Member Screenshots
114: Statistics
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Home
128: Photo Gallery
129: News Archive
130: Photo Gallery
131: Photo Gallery
132: News Archive
133: Downloads
134: Member Screenshots
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Member Screenshots
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Member Screenshots
143: Community Forums
144: Member Screenshots
145: Photo Gallery
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: News Archive
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Statistics
153: Community Forums
154: Member Screenshots
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: News Archive
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: News
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Downloads
176: Community Forums
177: Member Screenshots
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Member Screenshots
185: Member Screenshots
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Member Screenshots
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Member Screenshots
199: Member Screenshots
200: Member Screenshots
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Your Account
204: News Archive
205: Photo Gallery
206: LinkToUs
207: News
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Downloads
213: Community Forums
214: Downloads
215: News Archive
216: Community Forums
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Statistics
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Member Screenshots
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Photo Gallery
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: Member Screenshots
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Member Screenshots
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Community Forums
274: Your Account
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Photo Gallery
278: Home
279: Photo Gallery
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Member Screenshots
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: News Archive
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Member Screenshots
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Community Forums
297: Downloads
298: Home
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Member Screenshots
304: Community Forums
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: News Archive
308: Downloads
309: Member Screenshots
310: Community Forums
311: Home
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Home
315: News Archive
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Home
319: Your Account
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: Home
330: Member Screenshots
331: News
332: News
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Member Screenshots
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: News Archive
347: Community Forums
348: News Archive
349: Home
350: Member Screenshots
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Home
354: Photo Gallery
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Home
358: Community Forums
359: Member Screenshots
360: Photo Gallery
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: News Archive
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Member Screenshots
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Home
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Search
377: Photo Gallery
378: Statistics
379: Community Forums
380: Downloads
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Downloads
386: Photo Gallery
387: Home
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: News Archive
392: Photo Gallery
393: News Archive
394: Member Screenshots
395: Member Screenshots
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Statistics
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Downloads
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: News
409: Photo Gallery
410: Statistics
411: Member Screenshots
412: Statistics
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: Member Screenshots
420: Member Screenshots
421: Photo Gallery
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Downloads
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Statistics
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Tell a Friend
440: Member Screenshots
441: News Archive
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Photo Gallery
447: Home
448: News Archive
449: Downloads
450: Member Screenshots
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Home
455: Downloads
456: News Archive
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Downloads
460: Statistics
461: Home
462: Home
463: Community Forums
464: Member Screenshots
465: Community Forums
466: Member Screenshots
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Downloads
472: Home
473: Photo Gallery
474: Home
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: News Archive
479: Community Forums
480: News
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Your Account
486: Community Forums
487: Member Screenshots
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Member Screenshots
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Downloads
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Statistics
504: Member Screenshots
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Statistics
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Home
514: Home
515: Statistics
516: Home
517: Community Forums
518: Downloads
519: Photo Gallery
520: Member Screenshots
521: Community Forums
522: Statistics
523: Photo Gallery
524: Home
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: News Archive
530: Member Screenshots
531: Community Forums
532: Member Screenshots
533: Member Screenshots
534: Photo Gallery
535: Member Screenshots
536: Home
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: News Archive
541: Community Forums
542: News Archive
543: Member Screenshots
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Downloads
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Photo Gallery
551: Home
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Member Screenshots
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Member Screenshots
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Community Forums
570: Photo Gallery
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Member Screenshots
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Member Screenshots
577: Photo Gallery
578: Photo Gallery
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Member Screenshots
583: Member Screenshots
584: Community Forums
585: Downloads
586: Statistics
587: Home
588: Your Account
589: Home
590: Photo Gallery
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Statistics
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Member Screenshots
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Home
608: Photo Gallery
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Member Screenshots
626: Photo Gallery
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Photo Gallery
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Photo Gallery
634: Community Forums
635: Photo Gallery
636: Home
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Downloads
640: Community Forums
641: Photo Gallery
642: Community Forums
643: Home
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Downloads
652: Community Forums
653: Home
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Member Screenshots
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Photo Gallery
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Statistics
666: Home
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Home
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: News Archive
676: Member Screenshots
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Home
680: Community Forums
681: News Archive
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Supporters
692: Community Forums
693: Member Screenshots
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Member Screenshots
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Statistics
703: Downloads
704: Photo Gallery
705: Community Forums
706: Home
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: News Archive
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Photo Gallery
715: Community Forums
716: Member Screenshots
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Home
724: Downloads
725: Downloads
726: Community Forums
727: Member Screenshots
728: Community Forums
729: Member Screenshots
730: Community Forums
731: News Archive
732: Photo Gallery
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Downloads
737: Member Screenshots
738: Community Forums
739: Community Forums
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: LinkToUs
743: Member Screenshots
744: Statistics
745: Community Forums
746: Home
747: Photo Gallery
748: Home
749: Home
750: Home
751: Photo Gallery
752: Community Forums
753: Home
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Community Forums
760: Community Forums
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: Home
764: Home
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Statistics
768: Community Forums
769: Home
770: Member Screenshots
771: Downloads
772: Home
773: Community Forums
774: Community Forums
775: Home
776: Community Forums
777: Community Forums
778: Member Screenshots
779: Downloads
780: Community Forums
781: Community Forums
782: Community Forums
783: Home
784: Member Screenshots
785: Community Forums
786: Community Forums
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums
789: Community Forums
790: Community Forums
791: Community Forums
792: Community Forums
793: Downloads
794: Photo Gallery
795: Home
796: Community Forums
797: Community Forums
798: Home
799: Home
800: Community Forums
801: Photo Gallery
802: Community Forums
803: Community Forums
804: Community Forums
805: Downloads
806: Downloads
807: Community Forums
808: Community Forums
809: Photo Gallery
810: Home
811: Community Forums
812: Home
813: Downloads
814: Member Screenshots
815: Community Forums
816: Photo Gallery
817: Photo Gallery
818: Community Forums
819: Photo Gallery
820: Community Forums
821: Home
822: Photo Gallery
823: Community Forums
824: Community Forums
825: Community Forums
826: Community Forums
827: Community Forums
828: Member Screenshots
829: Downloads
830: Community Forums
831: Community Forums
832: Community Forums
833: Photo Gallery
834: Member Screenshots
835: Community Forums
836: Downloads
837: Community Forums
838: News Archive
839: Downloads
840: Member Screenshots
841: Community Forums
842: Community Forums
843: News
844: Home
845: Community Forums
846: Downloads
847: Community Forums
848: Photo Gallery
849: Community Forums
850: Community Forums
851: Statistics
852: Member Screenshots
853: Home
854: Community Forums
855: Member Screenshots
856: Home
857: Member Screenshots
858: Community Forums
859: Photo Gallery
860: Home
861: Home
862: Home
863: Home
864: Community Forums
865: Home
866: Home
867: Photo Gallery
868: Community Forums
869: Statistics
870: Community Forums
871: Home
872: Community Forums
873: Photo Gallery
874: Community Forums
875: Community Forums
876: Community Forums
877: Downloads
878: Community Forums
879: Home
880: Community Forums
881: Home
882: Community Forums
883: Community Forums
884: Photo Gallery
885: Search
886: Community Forums
887: News
888: Community Forums
889: Community Forums
890: Downloads
891: Member Screenshots
892: Community Forums
893: Home
894: Home
895: Community Forums
896: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart
No problem, So are we going to see any good pictures from this trip?


Bob,
Just home now. Nope, was only in Berlin with no extra time (though there is now something called the "Allied Museum"...don't know what's up with that). Gotta' get with Jens one of these days and do Muenster, but not for a while, though. Rolling Eyes

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism, Berlin actually doesnt have much in the way of military museums. There is however apparently the Luftwaffe museum there (wingie-thingies):
www.luftwaffenmuseum.d...dex_en.htm

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Doug_Kibbey
- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.


Yeah, but I'm not referring to a museum - I'm referring to the city. While London has the Nelson column and the cenotaph, at least it also has statues of famous prime ministers like Churchill.

Lets see, Berlin has the Siegessäule (victory column), Brandenburg Gate (a victory arch), the Bismarck memorial (complete with an atlas showing Germany's world power status at the end of the 19th century and a woman with a slain panther underfoot, symbolizing the suppression of sedition by the state), and statues of Moltke, von Roon, Frederick the Great, Blucher, Gneisenau, Scharnhorst and Yorck. No statues of prime ministers or other civil leaders that I am aware of... Closest thing is the Neue Wache, which used to be a guard house, but is now the Central Memorial of the Federal Republic of Germany.

www.theberlinobserver....saeule.htm

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"

Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"


We've gone pretty far OT... But I cant say I agree with that either. In fact, I'd posit that an enforced seperation of the two Germanies would probably have been a greater threat to peace... The resentment that it would have caused, especially in an economically depressed east... The same us (Germans) vs the world (US, UK, France & USSR/Russia) mentality... Calls for Anschluss... Sound familiar?

IMO, getting a unified Germany - and this is the critical part - into NATO was one of the best diplomatic achievements of the post-WWII era. Even Gorbachev realized that a Germany outside of NATO or the Warsaw Pact (albeit falling apart) would have forced the country to reconsider the old security dilemma. Bringing a unified Germany into NATO meant its security was tied with other European countries. And thankfully most Germans today believe this (albeit quite possibly to a fault). This was also helped when NATO expanded to include Poland, so that Germany didnt have to worry about a potentially unstable/unsecured zone to its east.


Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far


Yeah, I am not really concerned about the state of Germany today at least. I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").


I chose my words with care Wink


Bob...
As I figgered you would...I'm just not home (or in-country) at the moment and couldn't check my own sources to see if CC or CT was the more precise term. Not that it seems to matter much these days, anyway. Thanks to your clarification, I don't have to do any checking! Wink



As I understand it, the Infanty, during the triangular reset, started using the term Combat Team, were the Armored Divisions used the term Combat Command which I think lasted until the Pentomic Ear (1956-1960). After the Army went through the ROAD reset, three Brigades were standard in all divisions, but units under their control came and went just like they did during the triangle set up. "the Combat Command was the parent of the modern brigade." (Note that is in reference to the ROAD brigades).

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Ref: Evolution and Endurance: The U.S. Amry Division in the Twentieth Century by Richard W. Kedzior

www.rand.org/publicati...MR/MR1211/

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Neil_Baumgardner"]
- bsmart


I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil


Well, in addition to the abovementioned monuments, they still preserve the Kaiser Wilhelm Kirche (just around the corner from my usual hotel), which can be construed as a monument to what can happen when things get out of hand. Maybe it's a self-as-victim thing for some, but I hope it continues to be preserved. Somebody might be motivated to ask themselves, "I wonder what happened here?"
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Thats very true... That is a good reminder...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.

If you look at the history of the Marines, they almost always id a division as a division. For example the 1st Division is normally written as 1st Marine Division or for short as the 1st MarDiv. Regiments which they still use are almost always id by the number and the title Marines. For example the 13th Regiment is always written as the 13th Marines which by the way is an artillery regiment.

- bsmart

If I say 7th Cav I'll bet you think of the unit that went with Custer to Little Big Horn. That was The 7th Cavalry Regiment.

I agree because in the case of the 7th Cav, there never was a 7th Cav Division therefor no point of confussion.
- bsmart

The Old Guard is the 3rd Infantry that's the 3rd Infantry Regiment not Division.

The one exception to the rule and always a point of confussion unless one adds the terms "Old Guard" or "Regiment" or "ID". The Old Guard if I understand correctly is the last and only full INFANTRY Regiment in the Army.
- bsmart

When Divisions were first created as a standing organizational unit early in the 20th Century the were simply Divisions It was the 1st Division, 29th Division, etc. The 'Infantry' designater did not come until just before WWII, at about the same time they went from Square Divisions (2 Brigades of 2 Regiments each) to Triangular Divisions ....

Up to this point I agree, but when I was thinking the 147th was a Division and not just a regiment, I was thinking in terms that came into use after Triangular Divisions were started and standard terms for regiments that were not part of a division were written as 147th Infantry Regiments or as 147th Infantry (Seperate).

Hope this clears up my muddy and confuzed thinking about Army Regiments (WWII and post) and Army Divisions.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Roy_A_Lingle"]Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.
[quote]

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment.


I disgree sir. Not counting the Old Guard, the regiment has almost no meaning after the ROAD reset. I spent four years in an infantry battalion and we always used the term 1st Bn of the 30th Infantry or 3rd ID when talking about our unit. We never used the term 30th Infantry by itself because no one would know which battalion we were with. It was the battalion, not the regiment we were a part of. When learning and teaching history of the unit, it was focused on the battalion and the division histories. Never the Regiment or the Brigade histories.

- Neil_Baumgardner

I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...


I agree with "hearing someone say", but I am thinking about terms I remember being used in written accounts after the start of WW II and up until the late 1960s or so when people started getting lazy and cutting short just about everything. For example the 1st Infantry became 1st ID and things like M-48 tank became M48 tank.

I guess I am still knee deep in mud with this one.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Most soldiers will identify themselves using the two or three (or four) digit number that specifies their battalion/regiment. For example, if a Soldier was in 1st Battalion, 77th Infantry Regiment, he would say he is in 1-77 and pronounce it as "One-Seven-Seven".

I agree that someone in an infantry division would say they were in 3rd ID or 4th ID (versus 3rd Infantry or 4th Infantry), but if someone said they were in 1st Armor or 1st Cav, they would definitely be referring to 1st Armor Division or 1st Cavalry Division and not to the 1st Armor Regiment or 1st Cavalry Regiment.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Roy, everyone,
I have to agree with Roy that I've never heard anyone refer to their battalion sized unit as 1st Infantry or so forth, The norm since I've been in has been 1st ID, 3rd AD, 1st CAV, 4ID and etc when it comes to divisions. Seperate brigades were always just mentioned by their number, like 197th, 194th, 177th, 172nd and so forth. Everyone I worked with pretty much knew who they were and what they were. The only exception to the battalion rule was Korea. But then they were refered to as 1st and 2nd Tank (or Duece Tank), not 72nd Armor. As far as unit history we learned the Battalion's, so 1-72 would be different than 2-72's because 1-72 drew theirs from A Company, 72nd Armor and 2-72's was B Company. That was a simpler one, others like 63rd were originally the 745th Tank Destoyer Battalion, so it could get quite confusing. Doesn't help when you PCS every 2 years. To this day I dread some one asking me about my units history, mostly because my memory is a jumble of different history's mixed together from various Tank/Cavalry/Infantry units.

Just my 2 bits in this thread.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Agree with Roy also, though must add to Joe's comments that units like the 199th, 326th and 327th usually had "Infantry" (or Light Infantry, where applicable) attached.

I never heard anyone actually say "regiment" when referring to Cav units like the 17th or 11th. It was taken as given.

Referring to Rob's statements....in the OLD days (meaning VN era), soldiers usually extended that shorthand out to statements like "4th of the 77th" or "1st of the 326th", or whatever, rather than 4-77 or four-seven-seven.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum