±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 713
Total: 713
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Statistics
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: News Archive
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Downloads
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Member Screenshots
24: News Archive
25: Community Forums
26: Downloads
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Supporters
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Home
40: News Archive
41: Your Account
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Member Screenshots
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: News Archive
49: News
50: Member Screenshots
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Member Screenshots
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Your Account
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Member Screenshots
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Home
68: Member Screenshots
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: News Archive
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Member Screenshots
94: Downloads
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: News Archive
104: Home
105: Member Screenshots
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Member Screenshots
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: News
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Home
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Downloads
124: News Archive
125: Member Screenshots
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Member Screenshots
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: News Archive
154: News
155: Community Forums
156: Member Screenshots
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Member Screenshots
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: News
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Photo Gallery
172: Photo Gallery
173: Downloads
174: Downloads
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: News Archive
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Statistics
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Member Screenshots
203: Statistics
204: Member Screenshots
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Member Screenshots
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Downloads
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Downloads
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Home
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: News Archive
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Community Forums
244: Member Screenshots
245: Supporters
246: Downloads
247: Community Forums
248: Member Screenshots
249: Photo Gallery
250: Home
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: News Archive
255: Community Forums
256: News Archive
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: News Archive
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Member Screenshots
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: News Archive
281: Member Screenshots
282: Downloads
283: Photo Gallery
284: Downloads
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Member Screenshots
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: News Archive
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Home
303: Photo Gallery
304: Member Screenshots
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Home
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Downloads
317: Downloads
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Downloads
322: Home
323: Home
324: Member Screenshots
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Home
328: Home
329: Home
330: Home
331: Home
332: Home
333: Statistics
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Home
337: Home
338: News Archive
339: Home
340: Home
341: Home
342: Home
343: Downloads
344: Home
345: Home
346: Home
347: Home
348: Downloads
349: Home
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Statistics
355: Home
356: Home
357: Home
358: Photo Gallery
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: News Archive
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Downloads
382: News Archive
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: News Archive
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Member Screenshots
396: Photo Gallery
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Downloads
403: Downloads
404: Downloads
405: Home
406: Community Forums
407: Home
408: Downloads
409: Community Forums
410: Home
411: Community Forums
412: News Archive
413: Community Forums
414: Member Screenshots
415: Photo Gallery
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Downloads
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Home
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Member Screenshots
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Statistics
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Downloads
441: Home
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Member Screenshots
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Downloads
454: Community Forums
455: News Archive
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: News
459: Community Forums
460: Your Account
461: News
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Member Screenshots
465: Community Forums
466: News Archive
467: Member Screenshots
468: Member Screenshots
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Member Screenshots
472: Supporters
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Home
478: Home
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Downloads
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Member Screenshots
494: News
495: News Archive
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Photo Gallery
499: Member Screenshots
500: Community Forums
501: Member Screenshots
502: Member Screenshots
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Home
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: News Archive
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: News Archive
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: News Archive
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Member Screenshots
522: Photo Gallery
523: Downloads
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Downloads
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Downloads
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: News Archive
536: Photo Gallery
537: News Archive
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Downloads
542: Photo Gallery
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Member Screenshots
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Downloads
549: Community Forums
550: Photo Gallery
551: Home
552: Home
553: Community Forums
554: Member Screenshots
555: Community Forums
556: Member Screenshots
557: Home
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: Photo Gallery
561: Downloads
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: News Archive
566: Photo Gallery
567: Community Forums
568: Home
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Member Screenshots
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Photo Gallery
578: Downloads
579: Downloads
580: Community Forums
581: Search
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Statistics
586: Community Forums
587: Member Screenshots
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Home
591: Member Screenshots
592: Photo Gallery
593: Community Forums
594: Downloads
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Photo Gallery
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Member Screenshots
606: Community Forums
607: Member Screenshots
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Member Screenshots
615: Downloads
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Downloads
619: Community Forums
620: Photo Gallery
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Home
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Member Screenshots
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Home
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: News Archive
637: Photo Gallery
638: Home
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Member Screenshots
643: Member Screenshots
644: Community Forums
645: Member Screenshots
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Home
649: Community Forums
650: Home
651: Downloads
652: Member Screenshots
653: Community Forums
654: Photo Gallery
655: Downloads
656: Member Screenshots
657: Community Forums
658: Home
659: Downloads
660: Community Forums
661: Downloads
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Home
667: Member Screenshots
668: News Archive
669: Home
670: Downloads
671: Home
672: Home
673: Home
674: Downloads
675: Home
676: Downloads
677: Downloads
678: Photo Gallery
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Member Screenshots
682: Home
683: Community Forums
684: News Archive
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Home
689: Community Forums
690: Downloads
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Statistics
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Member Screenshots
697: Home
698: Downloads
699: Community Forums
700: Home
701: Home
702: Community Forums
703: Home
704: Photo Gallery
705: Community Forums
706: News Archive
707: Community Forums
708: Home
709: Home
710: Member Screenshots
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: News Archive

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart
No problem, So are we going to see any good pictures from this trip?


Bob,
Just home now. Nope, was only in Berlin with no extra time (though there is now something called the "Allied Museum"...don't know what's up with that). Gotta' get with Jens one of these days and do Muenster, but not for a while, though. Rolling Eyes

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism, Berlin actually doesnt have much in the way of military museums. There is however apparently the Luftwaffe museum there (wingie-thingies):
www.luftwaffenmuseum.d...dex_en.htm

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Doug_Kibbey
- Neil_Baumgardner
Despite being basically (IMHO) one big monument to German militarism...
Neil


Neil,
So, in that respect, it's pretty much my impression of the IWM-London. Laughing

D.


Yeah, but I'm not referring to a museum - I'm referring to the city. While London has the Nelson column and the cenotaph, at least it also has statues of famous prime ministers like Churchill.

Lets see, Berlin has the Siegessäule (victory column), Brandenburg Gate (a victory arch), the Bismarck memorial (complete with an atlas showing Germany's world power status at the end of the 19th century and a woman with a slain panther underfoot, symbolizing the suppression of sedition by the state), and statues of Moltke, von Roon, Frederick the Great, Blucher, Gneisenau, Scharnhorst and Yorck. No statues of prime ministers or other civil leaders that I am aware of... Closest thing is the Neue Wache, which used to be a guard house, but is now the Central Memorial of the Federal Republic of Germany.

www.theberlinobserver....saeule.htm

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner

I guess Berlin just strikes me as an odd contradiction, being the capital of one of the most pacifistic states in Europe, but filled with war memorials...

Neil


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"

Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart


As an associate of mine said in 1990

"A Unified Germany is the biggest threat to peace that Europe ever has"


We've gone pretty far OT... But I cant say I agree with that either. In fact, I'd posit that an enforced seperation of the two Germanies would probably have been a greater threat to peace... The resentment that it would have caused, especially in an economically depressed east... The same us (Germans) vs the world (US, UK, France & USSR/Russia) mentality... Calls for Anschluss... Sound familiar?

IMO, getting a unified Germany - and this is the critical part - into NATO was one of the best diplomatic achievements of the post-WWII era. Even Gorbachev realized that a Germany outside of NATO or the Warsaw Pact (albeit falling apart) would have forced the country to reconsider the old security dilemma. Bringing a unified Germany into NATO meant its security was tied with other European countries. And thankfully most Germans today believe this (albeit quite possibly to a fault). This was also helped when NATO expanded to include Poland, so that Germany didnt have to worry about a potentially unstable/unsecured zone to its east.


Maybe 'modern' Germany is trying to overcome that perception. But then again it's been less than 20 years so far


Yeah, I am not really concerned about the state of Germany today at least. I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").


I chose my words with care Wink


Bob...
As I figgered you would...I'm just not home (or in-country) at the moment and couldn't check my own sources to see if CC or CT was the more precise term. Not that it seems to matter much these days, anyway. Thanks to your clarification, I don't have to do any checking! Wink



As I understand it, the Infanty, during the triangular reset, started using the term Combat Team, were the Armored Divisions used the term Combat Command which I think lasted until the Pentomic Ear (1956-1960). After the Army went through the ROAD reset, three Brigades were standard in all divisions, but units under their control came and went just like they did during the triangle set up. "the Combat Command was the parent of the modern brigade." (Note that is in reference to the ROAD brigades).

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Ref: Evolution and Endurance: The U.S. Amry Division in the Twentieth Century by Richard W. Kedzior

www.rand.org/publicati...MR/MR1211/

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Neil_Baumgardner"]
- bsmart


I just think that Berlin has certain contradictions as its capital... I just wonder what happens when they're several generations removed from the horrors of WWII and there are still all these monuments around...

Neil


Well, in addition to the abovementioned monuments, they still preserve the Kaiser Wilhelm Kirche (just around the corner from my usual hotel), which can be construed as a monument to what can happen when things get out of hand. Maybe it's a self-as-victim thing for some, but I hope it continues to be preserved. Somebody might be motivated to ask themselves, "I wonder what happened here?"
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Thats very true... That is a good reminder...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.

If you look at the history of the Marines, they almost always id a division as a division. For example the 1st Division is normally written as 1st Marine Division or for short as the 1st MarDiv. Regiments which they still use are almost always id by the number and the title Marines. For example the 13th Regiment is always written as the 13th Marines which by the way is an artillery regiment.

- bsmart

If I say 7th Cav I'll bet you think of the unit that went with Custer to Little Big Horn. That was The 7th Cavalry Regiment.

I agree because in the case of the 7th Cav, there never was a 7th Cav Division therefor no point of confussion.
- bsmart

The Old Guard is the 3rd Infantry that's the 3rd Infantry Regiment not Division.

The one exception to the rule and always a point of confussion unless one adds the terms "Old Guard" or "Regiment" or "ID". The Old Guard if I understand correctly is the last and only full INFANTRY Regiment in the Army.
- bsmart

When Divisions were first created as a standing organizational unit early in the 20th Century the were simply Divisions It was the 1st Division, 29th Division, etc. The 'Infantry' designater did not come until just before WWII, at about the same time they went from Square Divisions (2 Brigades of 2 Regiments each) to Triangular Divisions ....

Up to this point I agree, but when I was thinking the 147th was a Division and not just a regiment, I was thinking in terms that came into use after Triangular Divisions were started and standard terms for regiments that were not part of a division were written as 147th Infantry Regiments or as 147th Infantry (Seperate).

Hope this clears up my muddy and confuzed thinking about Army Regiments (WWII and post) and Army Divisions.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

[quote="Roy_A_Lingle"]Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division.

Bob, you missed my point, I was thinking a Marine wrote that report using stand WW II Marine terms for an Army unit. When I read it I used Marine terms for the Marine units and converted the Army unit into standard WW II and post terms for divisions.

- bsmart

I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

I think you are correct up until 1939. After that the Army started dropping the term Regiment which had been the primary combat unit and using the division which had started becoming the primary combat unit. After WWII the Regiment was replaced by the Brigade and complete regiments started to be taken apart.
[quote]

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment.


I disgree sir. Not counting the Old Guard, the regiment has almost no meaning after the ROAD reset. I spent four years in an infantry battalion and we always used the term 1st Bn of the 30th Infantry or 3rd ID when talking about our unit. We never used the term 30th Infantry by itself because no one would know which battalion we were with. It was the battalion, not the regiment we were a part of. When learning and teaching history of the unit, it was focused on the battalion and the division histories. Never the Regiment or the Brigade histories.

- Neil_Baumgardner

I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...


I agree with "hearing someone say", but I am thinking about terms I remember being used in written accounts after the start of WW II and up until the late 1960s or so when people started getting lazy and cutting short just about everything. For example the 1st Infantry became 1st ID and things like M-48 tank became M48 tank.

I guess I am still knee deep in mud with this one.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
But I think Bob's point is correct, even today. If an average US Army soldier says he is with the 1st Infantry, he most liikely means he is in a battalion of the 1st Infantry Regiment. I more commonly hear "1st ID" as shorthand for 1st Infantry Division, rather than "1st Infantry." Frankly, I cant remember any instance of hearing someone say "X Infantry" and mean a division...

Neil
Most soldiers will identify themselves using the two or three (or four) digit number that specifies their battalion/regiment. For example, if a Soldier was in 1st Battalion, 77th Infantry Regiment, he would say he is in 1-77 and pronounce it as "One-Seven-Seven".

I agree that someone in an infantry division would say they were in 3rd ID or 4th ID (versus 3rd Infantry or 4th Infantry), but if someone said they were in 1st Armor or 1st Cav, they would definitely be referring to 1st Armor Division or 1st Cavalry Division and not to the 1st Armor Regiment or 1st Cavalry Regiment.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi Roy, everyone,
I have to agree with Roy that I've never heard anyone refer to their battalion sized unit as 1st Infantry or so forth, The norm since I've been in has been 1st ID, 3rd AD, 1st CAV, 4ID and etc when it comes to divisions. Seperate brigades were always just mentioned by their number, like 197th, 194th, 177th, 172nd and so forth. Everyone I worked with pretty much knew who they were and what they were. The only exception to the battalion rule was Korea. But then they were refered to as 1st and 2nd Tank (or Duece Tank), not 72nd Armor. As far as unit history we learned the Battalion's, so 1-72 would be different than 2-72's because 1-72 drew theirs from A Company, 72nd Armor and 2-72's was B Company. That was a simpler one, others like 63rd were originally the 745th Tank Destoyer Battalion, so it could get quite confusing. Doesn't help when you PCS every 2 years. To this day I dread some one asking me about my units history, mostly because my memory is a jumble of different history's mixed together from various Tank/Cavalry/Infantry units.

Just my 2 bits in this thread.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Agree with Roy also, though must add to Joe's comments that units like the 199th, 326th and 327th usually had "Infantry" (or Light Infantry, where applicable) attached.

I never heard anyone actually say "regiment" when referring to Cav units like the 17th or 11th. It was taken as given.

Referring to Rob's statements....in the OLD days (meaning VN era), soldiers usually extended that shorthand out to statements like "4th of the 77th" or "1st of the 326th", or whatever, rather than 4-77 or four-seven-seven.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum