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French and American FT-17
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Larkum's Preserved Tanks in France says there is an FT-17 at the "Somme Museum" in Amiens... Anyone know which museum this is, or have a pic of this FT-17?

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:02 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Here is an FT-17 TSF at Zeiterholz in France (yes, the suspension is not original - or useful!):



www.mablehome.com/molv...rholz2.htm

There's apparently also an FT-17 TSF in Fermont, France and at the Hackenberg Museum in Veckring, France.

Apparently they were buried on the Maginot Line - not sure which location this is from:





There were also turret emplacements, but these appear to be seperate from hulls:
po2260.club.fr/FT17/FT...DIVERS.htm

Neil
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:14 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Neil,

I also noticed these hulls and not listed FT-17s. I will check this up this week, not really the time yet. The museum with the turrets and the FT-17 body is 20 kilometers far from where I live and I wondered what's this steel box with big rivets... Laughing . That's the famous "Bunker with a tank on the top" a.k.a. the Casemate Esch museum. Here are some photos :



(not mine)

















P-O

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:51 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

- Neil_Baumgardner
Here is an FT-17 TSF at Zeiterholz in France (yes, the suspension is not original - or useful!):




Thats a Citroen-produced suspension unit used to emplace the hulls after they had been stripped of the suspension - the hull should be sat on steel platform between the track units. Merely used to carry the hull.

Cool

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:38 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

- the_shadock








Which tank does this turret come from? I did a quick search.. but obviously it doesn't correspond to any French pre-WW2 tank..

P-O

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:10 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Based on the rear pictures at this link, I am not sure the turrets are attached to hulls:
po2260.club.fr/FT17/FT...DIVERS.htm

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:43 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

- the_shadock
- the_shadock








Which tank does this turret come from? I did a quick search.. but obviously it doesn't correspond to any French pre-WW2 tank..

P-O


I was wondering if they are not tank turrets but were purpose designed to be used in the fixed location

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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:50 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Here is the FT-17 tank turret at Riva Bella in Normandy
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Andre_Flener
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:37 pm
Post subject: The Zeiterholtz' FT-17 TSF suspension

- JimWeb
- Neil_Baumgardner
Here is an FT-17 TSF at Zeiterholz in France (yes, the suspension is not original - or useful!):




Thats a Citroen-produced suspension unit used to emplace the hulls after they had been stripped of the suspension - the hull should be sat on steel platform between the track units. Merely used to carry the hull. Cool


Well, I once did some investigations about those dug out FT-17 TSF hulls on display at the "Ouvrages" of Zeiterholtz (but this one is an "abri"), Hackenberg, Fermont, etc. for the "Wheels & Tracks" magazine. They had their running gear and engine removed and were concreted into the soil with only their 'transmisson'-turret above ground level to act as observations posts in the "Ligne Maginot".

The Zeiterholtz example's non-original suspension actually came - according to its removers/restorers, with which I then spoke - from an old small tracked vineyard tractor (the famous "Moselle" valley is in the vicinity)! It even has sprockets - very unusual for a towed vehicle. Furthermore, I never heard of any such 'transport platforms', nor saw a picture of one in books about the Maginot Line...

Hope this helps.

Regards,
André Flener
(facing the Maginot Line bunkers (du secteur fortifié de Thionville) in neighbouring Luxembourg Smile )
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:52 pm
Post subject: Re: The Zeiterholtz' FT-17 TSF suspension

- Andre_Flener

The Zeiterholtz example's non-original suspension actually came - according to its removers/restorers, with which I then spoke - from an old small tracked vineyard tractor (the famous "Moselle" valley is in the vicinity)! It even has sprockets - very unusual for a towed vehicle. Furthermore, I never heard of any such 'transport platforms', nor saw a picture of one in books about the Maginot Line...


That will teach me to rely on the memory of an 90 year old frenchman...

Cool

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mdc1
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:15 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

I believe that is a Hotchkiss Mle1935-1937 turret for fortifications.



- bsmart
- the_shadock
- the_shadock








Which tank does this turret come from? I did a quick search.. but obviously it doesn't correspond to any French pre-WW2 tank..

P-O


I was wondering if they are not tank turrets but were purpose designed to be used in the fixed location
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:01 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Not to steal his thunder, but Pierre-Olivier got some pretty interesting info from Mr Otoupalik on various FT-17s & M1917s...

According to him, the FT-17 at APG with the M1917 turret was the first FT-17 sent to the US by France for use as the standard for the M1917...

The M1917s at the AAF Tank Museum in Danville VA, West Point Museum, Littlefield's collection & Otoupalik's collection were all owned by M.C. Bradley Military Rental Studios in Hollywood from 1922 to 1967.

Mr Otoupalik's FT-17 was originally a gift of the French government to the city of San Francisco and actually saw combat during WWI - it was hit by a 77mm shell!

Neil
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:15 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

- mdc1
I believe that is a Hotchkiss Mle1935-1937 turret for fortifications.


Thanks mdc1.

P-O

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bialy-r
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:01 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

FT-17 or 6 Ton Tank at Aberdeen Ordnance Museum (photo from November 2009)
www.flickr.com/photos/...761401831/
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:11 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Hmm... It appears they have repainted the “First US Sample Tank” (M1917), which was made from mild steel - previously on loan from the Smithsonian Institution to the National Museum of the U.S. Marine Corps at Quantico. I last saw it at museum warehouse.



Neil
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