±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 443
Total: 443
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Member Screenshots
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Downloads
13: Photo Gallery
14: Member Screenshots
15: Downloads
16: Member Screenshots
17: Your Account
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Home
22: Home
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Member Screenshots
31: Home
32: Member Screenshots
33: News Archive
34: Community Forums
35: Member Screenshots
36: Community Forums
37: News Archive
38: Downloads
39: Member Screenshots
40: Member Screenshots
41: Member Screenshots
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: News Archive
58: Member Screenshots
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Member Screenshots
62: Member Screenshots
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Home
68: Search
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Member Screenshots
76: Home
77: Member Screenshots
78: Member Screenshots
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Member Screenshots
83: Member Screenshots
84: Your Account
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Member Screenshots
89: Your Account
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: News Archive
98: Community Forums
99: Member Screenshots
100: Community Forums
101: Member Screenshots
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Home
107: Photo Gallery
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Member Screenshots
112: Community Forums
113: Statistics
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Member Screenshots
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Member Screenshots
131: Photo Gallery
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Member Screenshots
135: Member Screenshots
136: Home
137: Home
138: Photo Gallery
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Downloads
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Member Screenshots
146: Member Screenshots
147: Member Screenshots
148: Member Screenshots
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Member Screenshots
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: News Archive
162: Member Screenshots
163: Photo Gallery
164: Downloads
165: Member Screenshots
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Downloads
172: Downloads
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Home
180: Home
181: Member Screenshots
182: Downloads
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Member Screenshots
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Member Screenshots
195: Community Forums
196: Home
197: Member Screenshots
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Downloads
201: Community Forums
202: Member Screenshots
203: Member Screenshots
204: Home
205: Downloads
206: News Archive
207: Community Forums
208: News Archive
209: Photo Gallery
210: Member Screenshots
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Your Account
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Statistics
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Downloads
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Member Screenshots
237: Member Screenshots
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Home
244: Home
245: Home
246: Home
247: Photo Gallery
248: News Archive
249: Community Forums
250: Member Screenshots
251: Member Screenshots
252: Downloads
253: Photo Gallery
254: Home
255: Member Screenshots
256: Member Screenshots
257: Home
258: Home
259: Home
260: Home
261: Home
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Home
270: Treasury
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Photo Gallery
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Member Screenshots
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Member Screenshots
285: Home
286: Member Screenshots
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Downloads
293: Home
294: Home
295: Home
296: Photo Gallery
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Member Screenshots
305: Home
306: Downloads
307: Home
308: Member Screenshots
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Member Screenshots
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: News Archive
315: Community Forums
316: News
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Downloads
320: Home
321: Home
322: Home
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Home
328: Home
329: Home
330: Photo Gallery
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Member Screenshots
335: Downloads
336: Downloads
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Community Forums
340: Member Screenshots
341: Photo Gallery
342: Home
343: Photo Gallery
344: News Archive
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Downloads
349: Home
350: Home
351: Home
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Member Screenshots
356: Community Forums
357: Home
358: Downloads
359: Member Screenshots
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Photo Gallery
369: Downloads
370: Home
371: Member Screenshots
372: Treasury
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Member Screenshots
376: Home
377: Home
378: Member Screenshots
379: Home
380: Member Screenshots
381: Member Screenshots
382: Home
383: Home
384: Member Screenshots
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: Community Forums
389: Member Screenshots
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Photo Gallery
394: Home
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Member Screenshots
400: Member Screenshots
401: Home
402: Home
403: Member Screenshots
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Home
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Member Screenshots
410: Home
411: Home
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Member Screenshots
419: Home
420: Member Screenshots
421: News Archive
422: Member Screenshots
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Downloads
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Home
429: Home
430: Downloads
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: News Archive
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Statistics
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Home
443: Member Screenshots

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Where is the SN on a Sherman?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:28 pm
Post subject: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Hello,

I'm doing a little trip next week and I will be able to see some sherman tanks that are exposed in France. I don't know where to find the serial number. Also , what information could I easily get from these tanks that would be useful for you, and where could I find it?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Most of the time you can find them on the rear tow lugs/points, assuming they havent been painted over several times.

Neil

From the Sherman register:
web.inter.nl.net/users...serial.htm

M4 and M4A1
The tank serial number is only stamped on a plate attached to the lower left hull plate.

M4A2
The tank serial number is stamped on the two rear tow points.

M4A3
Apart from on the data plate, the Ford built M4A3 has its serial number and Ordnance serial number stamped on the rear hull plate. The numbers are stamped on the right side, the smaller of the two numbers is the Ordnance s/n, the larger is the Ford s/n. These numbers are repeated on the right side of the front armour, but you really have to look for it. Also, the Ford s/n is repeated on several of the major parts, such as the mantlet.
On the ultimate generation M4A3s built by Grand Blanc Tank Arsenal, the serial number is stamped on the two rear tow points. The Detroit Tank Arsenal tanks are rather problematic. Some of their vehicles have the serial number stamped on the two rear tow points, while others lack any serial number markings other than on the data plate.

M4A4
The vehicle serial is stamped on each boss to which the towing shackle is attached.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Thanks Neil, I will print this page, it's very informative. Anything else I could get or take in photo?

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Just as an example, here's a picture Jeff Button took of the tow lug on an M4A3(105) - its pretty typical of what you are looking for.



Honestly, I'm not real good at finding the SNs anywhere else on a Sherman, but there may be other examples that have been posted here (I'll try to look for one).

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

This page may also be of interest - it explains other stamps & castings you may see, but they are generally of less importance:

web.inter.nl.net/users...oundry.htm

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:41 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

There are various ways to identify a Sherman, even if you can not find a serial number. Most Shermans were built by Chysler or Fisher. A build number by Chrysler would appear on the right side-edge of the front glacis. Fisher's would be on the opposite side.
- Early Shermans had 3 small "weep" holes(drain holes) in the rear area of the turret splash gaurds, later modles had 1 large hole.
- These two companies also filled in their differential over-cuts differently. Chrysler appears to be a half-round fill, while Fishers are square in appearance.
- Early M4A3s had one piece rear engine deck plate, while later models and those that were rebuilt had the preferred two piece.
- All 47degree hull M4A3s had 5 digit serial numbers.
- A Sherman thats had HVSS upgarde, usually has weld scars on the left and right of the upper rear hull plate where the spare VVSS track holders were removed.
- If you find a "CP" in front of a part number on the glacis, this would indicate a Chrysler/Plymouth build.
- If you find a Sherman with HVSS, check to see if its a rebuild or original HVSS by looking at the suspension mounts on the side of the hull. Factory HVSS is bolted on while retro-fitted HVSS is welded on.
- Also look at the track, T66 track is all metal and relatively rare due to it being inferior and not liked by crews. They were the first type of track used on HVSS M4A3 (76) sent to Europe during WWII.
These are just a few of the tips sent to me by Joe DeMarco while I researched and "decoded" the 8 M4's here at Ft Hood. I have pictures of all these examples I have listed but they are on my work computer and not here at home. I just photograph and write down each and every marking I think is appicable to the vehicles ID.
The site Doug lists with its Foundry markings can also help alot, since many of the foundries only operated during certain years and for cetain vehicle types. Those foundry marks will also help with M26, M48, M60's as well. I hope this helps. I'll try and get those pictures on here if I can. A pictures worth a thousand words, esspecially when researching armor!

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

This is "Barfly" an M4A3E8 (76)HVSS, serial number 63350, Reg number 30116372. It was built December 1944 at Fisher Grand Blanc Arsenal. Fisher only built 525 M4A3's between Sept and December of 1944. This tank originally had VVSS suspension. The HVSS was most likely retrofitted at Red River Arsenal. Turret appears appears to have come from an earlier Chrysler M4A3 (76) due to the extra lifting ring in front of the split loaders hatch. Chrysler used 400-500 of those turrets on the earliest M4A3 (76) they built. The turret appears to be a left over from Chryslers abortive T23 program where the extra lifting ring served a winch purpose on the T23 medium tank.
Joe DeMarco came across a US Archievesdocument that shows 30116372 as having been issued to the 13th Tank Battalion, 1st AD, Italy, 4/1/45.
-The rear deck had the two piece deck cover.
-The sqaure "fill-in" weld area by the front diff's indicates a Fisher build. Chryslers hull builds look like half circle fills.
-The rear tow lug on this tank was on the left, however I have found them on either rear tow lug, but never the front.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Here are two more pictures I found that will help you identify and date an M4 model. "Barfly" from the previous pictures has the one large "weep" (drain) hole in the turret splash gaurd, which would indicate a later built Sherman. Here is a picture of an early build example with the two smaller drain holes. I also previously posted the square "diff fill area" that would indicate a Fisher build M4. This picture shows a round fill, which was typical of Chrysler built M4's. Here is also a picture of where Chrysler build stampings would be found on the front edge of the glacis, Fishers were on the opposite side.


_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?






Here are some more photo's I dug up that help you identify between a Chrysler and Fisher built M4. I will never look at an M4 varient the same way again now knowing all the little intricacies there are to tell all the differences.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:07 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

A 'trick' I have used to make stamped serial numbers show up better is to simply rub over them a few times with my thumb. It clears the oxidized paint and dust a little and seems to give the stamped numbers a little more contrast. It can also make the are stand out a little better in the photo. I keep meaning to put some 'Wetnaps' or baby wipes in the truck so that I don't have to use my thumb but never think about it until it's too late. Oh and remember that most old paint is lead based so don't go licking you fingers after you've been rubbing tanks. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum