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blair · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 87

www.liveleak.com/view?...1174174085

Okay there might be some nsfw links and it is a vid shot by the enemy...but a couple of questions here.

Why was the Bradley abandoned and where was the recovery?
Wouldn't the proper procedure be to position a guard around?

bsmart · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

Was it abandoned? It looked like it had a parachute or tarp rigged as a sun canopy over it. And what was circled on the left edge of the picture about halfway through? Were they trying to show there was someone supposedly guarding the vehicle from the side?

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

- bsmart

Was it abandoned? It looked like it had a parachute or tarp rigged as a sun canopy over it. And what was circled on the left edge of the picture about halfway through? Were they trying to show there was someone supposedly guarding the vehicle from the side?

It's my impression that the crew was away from the vehicle and security, such as it was, was being provided by the group that was circled off the left (the vehicle's right) and was obviously inadequate and inattentive. The guy approaching the vehicle does so from the opposite side and from the vehicles front and while walking through what appears to be shallow water, something you would hardly do if it was manned. He doesn't appear concerned about being detected by anybody on the vehicle, as much as by who is off there in that circled area.

I'm bettin' somebody with not much a$$ left after being confronted by his superiors had a lot of explaining to do as to how this vehicle was left so completely vulnerable to this kind of approach.

MarkHolloway · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

By the way it's positioned I'd say they were supposed to be with the vehicle on guard duty. Somebody is in deep doodoo.

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

HI Blair! Hi Folks!

- blair

Why was the Bradley abandoned and where was the recovery?

I am not so sure it was abandoned. The way the guy moved in, looks like he was aware of the vehicle's blind spots and was using them to get in and out. If the basic crew was still inside, (Vehicle commander, gunner, and driver) it looks like the vehicle was buttoned up and they would have been using the vision blocks and sights. That would leave some very large blind areas close to the vehicle.

- blair

Wouldn't the proper procedure be to position a guard around?

Yes! Armored vehicles in MOUT are very easy to take out if not protected by dismounted infantry or a lot of other AFVs.

Maybe the vehicle was taking sniper fire and the vehicle commander ordered the hatchs closed while they searched for the sniper.

Without more details about that event, it's hard to guess just what went down.

I have no idea what that was on the left side where the red circle was.

I for one, hope that vehicle was abandoned and all that small arms fire was just for show.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

Duke113p · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 08, 2007 Posts: 4

WOW!! I read everyones posts first then I saw the video. WOW... The insurgent exploited one of the five blind spots of the BFV. The crew is buttoned up and the engine is running, if you look closely you will see the exhaust coming out on (its) right side exhaust. ALSO!! How in the heck is this guy video taping this right in front of this BFV... Clear line of sight at that?! You see the barricades in the forground? Those "nets" in the background provide anti- sniper cover (in theory and to some degree they do work) for the mansion that these guys have set up some type of OP in. Not to disect this to the point of no return or helping out someone on the other team....

The crew is buttoned up, the turret does not traverse at ALL! four minuted of video and not one traverse, quick scan or nothing. All hatches are closed, ISU is open, engine is running, the driver is definately in his he..LL hole bed with his back rest of the seat down, so he is not watching, the gunners ISU is hampered by the reactive armor as is the BC's periscopes, the left periscope of the gunner, next to the ISU (BFV Left side as you sit) cannot see down that close at all. You can only see about 75 feet then under that and your blind. The crew as a whole was probably in the "same" return thing, easy op duty, complacent and the insurgents watch this, they learn, if your out there for a 12 hours OP shift, trust me, for those 12 hours they are watching you, maybe not the same people but you are always being watched, analyzed and having notes taking on your actions whatever they are. "Most" of the dumb insurgents have been thinned out by now, the smart ones are smart and becoming smarter for one simple reason here, they have someone else do it. Most of this is common sense stuff in some cases. Others it is much more different of course. We will never know the exact cause for this total breakdown in security. Was that particular avenue of approach covered down on? Known? Was it wired? Was it made just for this one attack? (did the enemy knock a whole in the wall and use that?)

I can tell you this much... the insurgent knew exactly where to place that round, to add the fuel container to it to help set up for secondaries. HE was very deliberate on getting that placed in a good spot. No amount of under armor could have prevented that IED from piercing that BFV's underbelly, lets not even mention the fact that the poor BFV has all that added reactive armor on her. Close quarters in MOUT without the dismounts to support or provide the needed security to cover down on their blind spots. SOMEONE Higher obviously did not conduct a proper mission / threat assessment and for that our soldiers paid the price. (No I am not saying that it was any ones person fault, but a complete break down at many different levels there)

Rest in peace brothers, know that someone will get those guys who did this.

Bob_Clifton · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 13, 2006 Posts: 6

At 2:41 there appears to be movement at the Commanders hatch. I could be wrong.
Bob Clifton

blair · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 87

Guys Thanks for your input and reaction.

I want to be very clear that I don't support that site or have anything to do with it. I just came across it as a link from another site I go to.

I went through the site and there are more armor related videos...but a WARNING!

You will find some that deal with IEDs Bradleys and a few M1's. There are some videos of US Tank/Bradley comanders being sniped as they are up in the cupola doing an " Israeli" ( if thats the proper term)

It didn't seem to matter how much additional armor plates or shields were around the hatch..the enemy was still able to get them.

I will say that I find it very disturbing that the camera work seems to be done from relativley close to the armor

My God ...those poor brave souls.

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

Hi Folks!

- Duke113p

The crew is buttoned up, the turret does not traverse at ALL! four minuted of video and not one traverse, quick scan or nothing. All hatches are closed, ISU is open, engine is running, the driver is definately in his he..LL hole......

I was thinking about that on the way to work tonight. Now many times has a news camera man been killed for pointing his camera at an AFV during the last couple of years?

I bet the crew (three of them) noticed the camera man and they were watching him. Sense he wasn't doing anything hostile, they keep their attention focused on him.

I just hope an intell shop is watching that site and recorded that video so commanders and troops can be briffed on how NOT to do what that unit was doing. Talk about reinventing the wheel.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

bsmart · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

Part of the footage was on the NBC nightly news last night (Sunday) so this actually gave us a better chance to look at it in detail.

I'm not sure the camera was that close. I suspect that it was located in a building at the far end of the street/alley with the lens concealed within rubble, normal domestic stuff, etc.

Duke113p · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 08, 2007 Posts: 4

Absolutely right everyone, spot on. I did not even notice that before about the BC's hatch. I think you are right. If you were to say go to you Tube and search IED, Iraq you would not be surprised as to what you will find on there. The Army Center For Lessons Learned is fully aware of sites like Live and Tube airing these videos. The sad thing is some are posted obviously by the insurgents and terrorists. Others are posted by our brave men and women out there just trying to tell their own story about something. The worst thing is, the enemy watches these and learn over and over again.

So it was o the news? WOW, what channel? I bet DOD is groaning over this video coming out there on the net. Soon it will be all over and that hit counter for it will be past the 100,000 mark.

bsmart · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

NBC Nightly News, The National feed. It didn't say they got it from a web site. As I remember it they said 'released by Iraqi insurgents' or something similar. They only showed the blast and a little leading up to it not the whole thing

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

Hi Folks!

- bsmart

NBC Nightly News, The National feed. It didn't say they got it from a web site. As I remember it they said 'released by Iraqi insurgents' or something similar. They only showed the blast and a little leading up to it not the whole thing

Very interesting! The NBC reporter said "the insurgents" claimed the US opened fire after the attack. If that is true, then that small arms fire after the blast was possibly coming from some of the troops who came out of the vehicle shooting! I know I would.

Maybe the armor protected them after all. Reminds me of the track I lost to a land mine a lot time ago.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

bsmart · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

Or some dismounts started shooting, I wish I knew what it was they had circled on the left edge, were they showing U.S. troops who were dismounted and not observent or insurgents that were overwatching the position? I can't make out enough detail to tell.

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Bradley Brew up

The incident may well be the one descibed in this article:

www.estripes.com/artic...chive=true

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