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Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- GaryKato
Unknown 2 is probably an Alvis Stalwart (Accurate Armor just came out with a kit of it)


Only if they washed it too hot and it shrunk- nowhere near the size of a "Stolly" and wrong types of wheels to boot.
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GaryKato
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- Jens_O_Mehner
- GaryKato
Unknown 2 is probably an Alvis Stalwart (Accurate Armor just came out with a kit of it)


Only if they washed it too hot and it shrunk- nowhere near the size of a "Stolly" and wrong types of wheels to boot.


This is a link to the Accurate Armour's Stalwart product page. I still think it's a Stalwart.
Accurate Armour Stalwart

As for the AMX VCI/VCA, I guess it's a VCG. On the one hand, you're right about the drive sprocket not looking right. I feel it's AMX based from the muffler on the right front trackguard as well as the typical stowage of a roadwheel on the glacis plate. The VCG has a dozer blade plus a front mounted A arm (which you can see in the photo behind the lights).

That 4-wheeled armored car is going to lose me some sleep.

I saw a picture (though not clear) of a VCG from the right side. It looked as if the drive sprocket was extended, like for some power take-off. You might try googling for it "AMX VCG" and taking a look at it. In your picture, it looks as if something should attach to the drive sprocket.
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- GaryKato
This is a link to the Accurate Armour's Stalwart product page. I still think it's a Stalwart.
Accurate Armour Stalwart


Gary,

I've been around enough real Stalwarts (there's even a privately owned one about 15 klicks from where I live) to tell you that crate isn't one- just compare the wheel hubs, which were very typical of the whole Stalwart/Saracen/Saladin family.



Jens O.
(for some reason feeling a year older today... Smile )
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- Jens_O_Mehner
(for some reason feeling a year older today... Smile )


The most un-subtle birthday hint I ever saw... Happy Birthday Jens!

Cool

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GaryKato
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

[quote="Jens_O_Mehner

I've been around enough real Stalwarts (there's even a privately owned one about 15 klicks from where I live) to tell you that crate isn't one- just compare the wheel hubs, which were very typical of the whole Stalwart/Saracen/Saladin family.

[/quote]

I've never seen one in my life. However, I'm looking at the pictures of hubs from Bill Munro's book "Alvis Saracen Family" and the hubs look the same to me, even the ones on the cover picture of a Saracen.

Are we looking at the same picture? I was trying to ID this one:
Unknown 2
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:32 am
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- GaryKato
I've never seen one in my life. However, I'm looking at the pictures of hubs from Bill Munro's book "Alvis Saracen Family" and the hubs look the same to me, even the ones on the cover picture of a Saracen.

Are we looking at the same picture? I was trying to ID this one:
Unknown 2


Ooops, he said,

wiping humungous amounts of egg off his face- I was stuck in Neill's posts and the sixwheeler there.

Yep, that indeed is a Stalwart, possibly even trialled by the French at one time, Alvis did try to market it rather aggressively, it was also trialled by the Bundeswehr.

Sorry about the mishap, Gary, glad you saw clearer than I and pointed out the root of the problem.



Jens O.
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:33 am
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- JimWeb
- Jens_O_Mehner
(for some reason feeling a year older today... Smile )


The most un-subtle birthday hint I ever saw... Happy Birthday Jens!

Cool


Why, thank you very much, how did you ever guess? Laughing

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GaryKato
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:41 am
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

Jens,
No problem. I knew that either I had a brain stroke and lost my ability for pattern recognition or we had to be looking at different pictures!

(for some reason, I'm feeling a year older today myself) Smile
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- GaryKato
As for the AMX VCI/VCA, I guess it's a VCG. On the one hand, you're right about the drive sprocket not looking right. I feel it's AMX based from the muffler on the right front trackguard as well as the typical stowage of a roadwheel on the glacis plate. The VCG has a dozer blade plus a front mounted A arm (which you can see in the photo behind the lights)..


Gary, you are right, it's indeed an AMX-13 VCG. I was a little bit confused, because Saumur also owns an AMX-13 VCG F1 which is quite different (the drive sprocket is from an usual AMX-13), (here is a picture from Dennis Trowbridge). It seems that both drive sprocket were used for this vehicle.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2985676410063387170ByRGjx

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- GaryKato
Unknown 4 looks like an AMX-10P.


So this is most probably a kind of prototype of AMX-10 P because it doesn't look like an usual one on some details...

Now, only the armored car and one AFV (unknown 1) remains unidentified on this album :

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/560046376iZuVfr

and these ones :

ERC prototype??



AMX-30 with a test turret ??



P-O

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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- the_shadock






Ah,

there's the culprit- see why I didn't see a Stalwart? Smile

If your message means what I think it means, then many happy returns to you, Gary.



Jens O.
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

OK,

now that I'm with the program again, let's see... The armored car reminds me of the carrier vehicle for the Crotale, but obviously isn't- may be a pointer, though? Somehow I'm tempted to say Panhard, I know I've seen this thing before- AML series?

"Unknown 1" seems rooted in the AMX 30 family, I don't think I've seen silencers such as these on anything but an AMX product.

T-54 or 55 should be a Chinese product, the fender-mounted headlights weren't used by the Soviets or the other WP- nations that built the T-54/55- it's probably a T-59.

As regards our six-wheeled mystery beast, may I present the Panhard VCR M3, methinks there are certain common elements:

Cool



Jens O.
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- Jens_O_Mehner

As regards our six-wheeled mystery beast, may I present the Panhard VCR M3, methinks there are certain common elements


I am inclined to think its one of the ERC prototypes....

Cool

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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- JimWeb
- Jens_O_Mehner

As regards our six-wheeled mystery beast, may I present the Panhard VCR M3, methinks there are certain common elements


I am inclined to think its one of the ERC prototypes....

Cool


Yeah,

I see what you mean, wheel hubs as well as the design of the turn indicators do look like the ERC-90, do they not? I am inclined to agree...



Jens O.
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GaryKato
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:42 am
Post subject: Re: Pictures from Saumur - outside storage areas / ID Help!

- Jens_O_Mehner

Ah,

there's the culprit- see why I didn't see a Stalwart? Smile

If your message means what I think it means, then many happy returns to you, Gary.



Jens O.


Yes, I would definitely have to have a stroke to ID that as a Stalwart!

Thank you, Jens. A package from Squadron arrived right on time as well!
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