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Ah...this brings back some memories...'specially that "in-turret" footage. It's USMC exercises, but not any different. JoeD, you should dig this! You younger guys will this is so primitive! (and they're more advanced than what I had, because I hear someone say "Get your stab on."...that's after my time....)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=M78MCD8rExo

Great Video! I'm just wondering why they used .50 cal first when confronted by enemy armor?

- MarkHolloway

Great Video! I'm just wondering why they used .50 cal first when confronted by enemy armor?

I heard something about "removing the infantry threat"...I think the reality was, fire the .50's while we can still score them before the plywood targets are obliterated with the main gun.

Thats the longest bursts I have seen from an M-85! Those POS were the biggest headaches when it came to training with M60's

Also whats the deal with the loader slapping at the ejected case?

- Tanklord

Thats the longest bursts I have seen from an M-85! Those POS were the biggest headaches when it came to training with M60's

Also whats the deal with the loader slapping at the ejected case?

Better control where they go. C'mon, you've got M60 time! This gets to be a factor especially when you're firing a bunch of rounds before you get to empty out the fighting compartment and the loader has to dance around on those things (like walking on logs). They can rebound forward a good piece off the asbestos pad at the back of the turret at unpredicatable angles and even strike you (and those forward edges hurt). Notice that he slaps the front of the case. That loader is doing a good job of slamming 'em in there at the end in rapid fire mode. A decently practiced crew.

Sorry, didn't spend much time in loader position on M60's. Now I know!

- Tanklord

Sorry, didn't spend much time in loader position on M60's. Now I know!

Officers!

But never a gentleman! I will have you know that I spent 16 months as an E-4 54E NBC specialist! Did my share of KP duty (Main deciding factor in becoming an officer!)

- Tanklord

But never a gentleman! I will have you know that I spent 16 months as an E-4 54E NBC specialist! Did my share of KP duty (Main deciding factor in becoming an officer!)

Somehow, I managed never to have had the pleasure of KP duty. Don't know how that worked out, but I ain't complainin'!

OK, you get street cred for having been an EM, even if it was in something weak like NBC (or CBR as we used to call it). Not as fun as armor would have been, no wonder you switched!

Unfortunately I cannot access the video (I will this weekend),

Arghh,......someone bashing my M85 again. IIRC I believe I had mentioned to Doug how the M85 had the bugs worked out when we used them. This video seems to support that (If I can only see it). Either that or the NCO's were smarter/ better trained in my day . It still would kick the ass of a lot of 2nd LT's. Typical comments on the net during gunnery, "Tower, this is D-21, I need the MG/Armorer/PSG to fix my fifty Cal, it just won't work right" . This while to the left and right TC's are blasting away at the 500 meter target barrels. Either that or he broke the "Alligator Clip" for the sight. With blanks the trick we used was to cut the cardboard spacers the ammo came in and install it in the cupola, that way it wouldn't kink going into the feed chute.

Them 105 cases would bounce quite a bit, In some rare cases hitting the gunner. It didn't help if some knuckle head set the breech cam to fast (Not neccesary except in really cold weather). Nothing would piss my TC off more than to forget to take up the nice rubber mat we had custom fit to the turret floor when firing. Leave it down and it would be full of half-moon cuts from the shell casings. Loader better be sharp. God help the fellow who did not have a round in time before the Gunner was ready to fire. No excuse considering the M60 had no gaurds to slow you down and the Training APDS was about 39 lbs. Fond memories

Joe D

- Joe_D

Unfortunately I cannot access the video (I will this weekend),

Them 105 cases would bounce quite a bit, In some rare cases hitting the gunner. It didn't help if some knuckle head set the breech cam to fast (Not neccesary except in really cold weather). Nothing would piss my TC off more than to forget to take up the nice rubber mat we had custom fit to the turret floor when firing. Leave it down and it would be full of half-moon cuts from the shell casings. Loader better be sharp. God help the fellow who did not have a round in time before the Gunner was ready to fire. No excuse considering the M60 had no gaurds to slow you down and the Training APDS was about 39 lbs. Fond memories

Joe D

Ahhh...there's my "backup"...wait'll you see this video, Joe...you're gonna' love it, especially the last 20 seconds! This crew is pretty efficient and the loader is well practiced...he totally keeps up with his gunner and never misses a beat, drawing from the aft stowage rack, not the ready rack. They're firing HEAT-T and HEAT rounds, not APDS in this exercise (I think I see them go from blue to black, so from training to live, I think they proceed from plywood targets to hard targets downrange, which might explain the .50 cal fire first)
Controlling your spent cases is half the battle if you're the loader!

Joe, you nailed it. Sorry about bashing your M-85 Remember, I was just a newly minted LT. Wish I would have had some guys like you when I did my initial training. I am learning more about the M-60 than I did then. Part of the problem was the unit I was going to be assigned to had M-60A1's and was to upgrade to M-1's about the time I was to leave AOBC, but that did not happen, so I was kinda lost in the 60's

Watched the Video today,
They were firing Training HEAT and service APDS. The APDS is not DU and also obsolete. Used in training. After watching I will say the loader is doing a satisfactory job. We would battle carry a round in the chamber. Once the fire command was given the loader would arm the gun and grab the next round. As soon as the gun fired he'd slam it in. Some crazier loaders would rubber band the safety so it would stay armed after firing. Eliminating the need to arm the gun after loading. These questionable practices were done mostly during CAL-FAX or Mad Minutes near the end of a gunnery density. Video is an obvious dog and pony show. They had to put the obligatory fireball explosion in, even though all rounds loaded are inert. Probably why he is loading the way he is. I bet he would've much rather "Lap-Loaded".

Man do I miss being a Tanker, thanks Doug.

Joe D

- Joe_D

Watched the Video today,
They were firing Training HEAT and service APDS. The APDS is not DU and also obsolete. Used in training. After watching I will say the loader is doing a satisfactory job. We would battle carry a round in the chamber. Once the fire command was given the loader would arm the gun and grab the next round. As soon as the gun fired he'd slam it in. Some crazier loaders would rubber band the safety so it would stay armed after firing. Eliminating the need to arm the gun after loading. These questionable practices were done mostly during CAL-FAX or Mad Minutes near the end of a gunnery density. Video is an obvious dog and pony show. They had to put the obligatory fireball explosion in, even though all rounds loaded are inert. Probably why he is loading the way he is. I bet he would've much rather "Lap-Loaded".

Man do I miss being a Tanker, thanks Doug.

Joe D

In the 'early days', I was a loader. My Commander (TC & Company) gave me some 'expectations' points. Specifically how to 'lap load' with a locked open ammo door. I did this from 1985 thru 1988. I really loved twirling the 105 mm rounds, slamming them 'home' then bellowing the UUUUUPPPPP!!! at an ear peircing level. Kicking the spent casings accross the turret as I 'planted' my left leg under the breech. Ahhh yes and inhaling the fumes of the spent rounds

By todays 'Safety Standards' this would get anyone fired or charged with a crime.!! (remember that there significant differences between the 105mm & 120 mm Ammo.

Regards
Don

Fortunately British 105s were equipped with a decent loaders guards so we didn't have to get up to any of these shenanigans... Also our loaders always picked up the next round before hitting the safety.

Always remember the final battle run we did with the Centurions - we had a full load of ammunition and five extra rounds... I had one of the between my legs (gunner)! Have never shot so much tank ammo in one day in my life ever since.