±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 506
Total: 506
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: News Archive
04: Home
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Your Account
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Supporters
15: Downloads
16: Community Forums
17: News
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Downloads
21: Home
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Member Screenshots
29: Contact
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Member Screenshots
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Downloads
40: Home
41: Downloads
42: Home
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: News Archive
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Home
59: Home
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Member Screenshots
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Member Screenshots
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Member Screenshots
80: Home
81: News Archive
82: Downloads
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Member Screenshots
86: Photo Gallery
87: Photo Gallery
88: Your Account
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Treasury
95: Downloads
96: Community Forums
97: Downloads
98: Home
99: Downloads
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Member Screenshots
108: Community Forums
109: News Archive
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Your Account
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Member Screenshots
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Downloads
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Member Screenshots
141: Statistics
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Member Screenshots
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Home
158: Home
159: Home
160: Photo Gallery
161: Member Screenshots
162: Community Forums
163: Your Account
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Downloads
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: News Archive
192: Community Forums
193: Contact
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Home
197: Downloads
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: News Archive
214: Photo Gallery
215: Home
216: Home
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Downloads
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Home
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Photo Gallery
250: Home
251: Member Screenshots
252: Member Screenshots
253: Member Screenshots
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Statistics
258: Home
259: Downloads
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Downloads
271: Home
272: Member Screenshots
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Photo Gallery
279: Home
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Home
287: Photo Gallery
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: News Archive
291: Member Screenshots
292: Your Account
293: Downloads
294: Member Screenshots
295: News Archive
296: Statistics
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Home
308: Downloads
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Member Screenshots
318: Community Forums
319: Contact
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Downloads
326: Community Forums
327: Home
328: News Archive
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Member Screenshots
334: Your Account
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: News Archive
340: Community Forums
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Member Screenshots
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: News
355: Home
356: Photo Gallery
357: Member Screenshots
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Home
363: Photo Gallery
364: Photo Gallery
365: Member Screenshots
366: Home
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Member Screenshots
370: Member Screenshots
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Contact
374: Home
375: Member Screenshots
376: Home
377: Community Forums
378: Photo Gallery
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Downloads
382: Home
383: Your Account
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Member Screenshots
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Home
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: News Archive
405: Home
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Home
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Downloads
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Home
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Home
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Community Forums
427: Tell a Friend
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Member Screenshots
431: Home
432: Home
433: Community Forums
434: Downloads
435: Community Forums
436: Downloads
437: News Archive
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Home
444: News Archive
445: Home
446: Home
447: Photo Gallery
448: Community Forums
449: Member Screenshots
450: Home
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Community Forums
455: Home
456: Home
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Home
463: Community Forums
464: Home
465: Statistics
466: Search
467: News
468: Photo Gallery
469: Statistics
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Downloads
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Member Screenshots
477: Home
478: Home
479: Community Forums
480: Downloads
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Home
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Photo Gallery
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Your Account
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Member Screenshots
502: Member Screenshots
503: Community Forums
504: Downloads
505: Downloads
506: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kerry_Brunner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:57 pm
Post subject: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

I'm looking for photos and/or drawings of the Canadian Autocar MG Carrier used by the CEF during WWI. Can anyone help?

Kerry

nailcreek @ hotmail.com
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:51 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

The armoured Autocar was used by the 1st Canadian Motor Machine-gun Brigade. The unit had its first parade on the 2nd of Sept, 1914, making it the first armoured unit in the British Commonwealth. The following is from the book ‘Worthy� by LarryWorthington:

“The 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade was the brilliant brain-child of Raymond Brutinel, a former French Army officer. It was believed he had been one of those persecuted during the Dreyfus case, and had left France in consequence. An engineer, he was living in Canada at the outbreak of war and conceived the idea of creating a mobile force having armoured protection. It was a revolutionary idea, but he managed to raise money privately, Sir Clifford Sifton and Sir John Eaton being among those who contributed substantially.

“The Minister of Defence having approved the force, Brutinel went to the United States and bought a number of delivery trucks called Autocars, quantities of light armour plate from Bethlehem Steel, and machine-guns from the Colt factory at Hartford, Connecticut. It was illegal to ship arms to Canada, and Germans working in the factory did their best to prevent it. But in spite of them, the guns were smuggled out of the factory and across the border, arriving intact at Lansdowne Park in Ottawa where the unit was to assemble.

“Brutinel then advertised for recruits for an armoured automobile brigade, and flocking to enlist were mining men from the North Country, who could turn a hand to anything. (Among them was Fred Thompson of Haileybury, who had fought in the Honduras Navy six years before.)

“With Major Brutinel in command the 1st Canadian Automobile Brigade, four batteries strong, sailed for England December, 1914. The batteries were named for their sponsors: two Sifton, one Eaton and one Borden. Later a fifth was added, the Yukon Battery, recruited in Dawson City and equipped by the famous Yukoner, Joe Boyle. Shortly after arriving in England the name of the unit was changed to the 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade.

“The Brigade went to France in 1915, but armoured cars as fighting machines were useless in trench warfare. The vehicles were nearly scrapped, but Brutinel fought to keep them, using them for supplies and administrative work. Gradually he increased his mechanized transport with lorries.

“Brutinel was a truly brilliant soldier. He introduced the idea of machine-gunners fighting as a unit instead of a gun here and a gun there. He developed a system called "interlocking defensive cross-fire" which was devastating to an enemy. Also, using massed machine-guns, he trained gunners to shoot from a map over the heads of allied troops, like artillery. (indirect fire).

“The doctrines of the 1st Canadian Motors made military history, and the unit was used to demonstrate to the British General Staff what could be done. Before long a Canadian Machine-Gun Corps was authorized with Brutinel, promoted to brigadier general, in command. Later machine-gun battalions were formed.

“The 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade saw considerable action, but it wasn't until March, 1918, that they went into battle in the role in which they were originally conceived.

“On March 21st, under the command of Colonel W. K. Walker, the Motors were ordered to move up to the Somme to support the British 5th Army. The armoured cars were renovated and the Canadians, as a mobile unit, more than justified their existence - fighting a rear-guard action in the March Retreat that defeated the British 5th Army.
“Previously Brutinel had convinced General Currie that there was a definite role for a large completely mechanized force, and this operation confirmed it. The outcome was the formation of a 2nd motor machine-gun brigade and authorization for a mobile formation under the command of Brigadier General Brutinel, named the Canadian Independent Force. Besides the two motor machine-gun brigades (which were actually battalions), the Force comprised one battery of field artillery, one field company of engineers, one battalion of cyclists, and a mortar unit. Motor bikes were used by signallers, despatch riders, and also for reconnaissance.

“The Canadian Independent Force was the first mechanized formation in the Commonwealth armies and a forerunner of the armoured division. They fought their first major engagement on August 8th, 1918, and thereafter saw almost continuous action until the Armistice.�









www.rcaca.org/En/indexLM.asp?ID=20
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:25 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Could this be the first "guntruck"?

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Kerry_Brunner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Somewhere I seem to recall that there was one in a museum somewhere ... is this true??
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:41 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

There is an armoured Autocar on display in the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.

www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/cwme.asp
Back to top
View user's profile
Kerry_Brunner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:50 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Thanks ... has anyone ever done a full series of photos and drawings? This one would be a lot of fun to build in 1/35th or 1/16th scale!
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

The Canadian war diaries from the First World War are on line at Archivianet. Here are the diaries of the Motor MG units:

data4.collectionscanad...ml&r=0&f=S
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:07 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

You can order 1/35 scale drawings from George Bradford on the original AFV News site. It is C-28.

www.afvnews.ca/1-35g.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here is a picture of the CWM's MG carrier at Vimy House back in April 2004.



Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:33 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here are some photos of the Autocar at the Canadian War museum which I took yesterday. (Note that the white rectangle on the side of the Autocar is just a sign put up by the CWM asking people not to climb on the vehicle.)













Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/l...ery_e.html

The URL to the CWM posted previously is the generic entry point. This is a more specific, but not much better part of their site.
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here is an article about the history of the Canada’s first armoured unit.

www.wlu.ca/lcmsds/cmh/...%20War.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile
BruceClark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

FYI
Clive Law of Service Publications recently published a book all about the Autocar, relying heavily on the Worthy's preserved car in CWM. Includes scale drawings:

www.perthmilitarymodel...ow017.html

Cheers!
Bruce
Back to top
View user's profile
Jim_Coles
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

There's also an article with photos and 1:48 plans in AFV News Vol 42-1 (Jan-Apr 2007) which is available as a back copy on George's AFV News site. Note that the list of available issues isn't up to date, but the snailmail and e-mail contact addresses are there.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum