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Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:23 am
Post subject: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

TJ Whelan from the Washington Armor Club stopped by the Military Museum of Southern New England on a recent roadtrip and has posted the first decent photo tour of the museum I have seen.

s123.photobucket.com/a...E/?start=0

A few items of note...

This MBT-70 hiding behind an SPz 42-1 cargo carrier (making it look like its VERY well armed) used to be in the Ordnance Museum collection, but is in very poor condition... There's also an M47 Patton in the background.



The XM800T ARSV behind this Spz 11-2 Hotchkiss Kurz was also in the Ordnance Museum collection. I think that's an M108 hiding in the background...



Similarly, I highly suspect this Pbv 302 with a faded US Army RN is the Pbv 302 that used to be in the Ordnance Museum collection.



Centurion Mk 5



Another M36 Jackson retrieved from the former Yugoslavia



This M18 Hellcat was actually a gift of the Yugoslav government



A decent looking M551 Sheridan - albeit with a bogus painted RN, too many digits...



BA-64 armored car - only one in the US?



JS-2 gun & mantlet



Neil
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:38 am
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New Englan

Neil,

How many XM800Ts were built? I was not aware that APG had one.

That "Shank" looks pretty good. Water barrier covers are not completly rotted, and the transmitter box looks "ready for duty" as tool box or stash box....take your pick.

Never heard of this place...what else they got?
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:01 am
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

At least four XM800Ts were built, apparently at least 2 survivors - the other is at Fort Knox...

Here's the museum collection, updated from TJ's pics:

BA-64 SOV out Only example in the US?
BMP-1 SOV out
Centurion Mk 5 GRB/CHE out Gift of Swiss government
Ferret GRB out VRN 02CC78
JS-2 gun & mantlet SOV out
M2A1 Half-Track USA out
M3A1 Stuart? USA std?
M4 �Carriage�? USA std? SN 975; Unconfirmed
M4 �Carriage�? USA std? SN 5473; Unconfirmed
M4 �Carriage�? USA std? SN 17963; Unconfirmed
M8 Greyhound USA ind Painted RN 60114171
M18 Hellcat USA/YUG ind Gift of the Yugoslav government
M20 USA out
M22 Locust USA ind Painted RN 30201141
M22 Locust USA std?
M22 Locust USA std?
M36 Jackson USA/YUG out Former Yugoslav, has T-55 engine
M39 USA std? One of six surviving M39s?
M39 USA std? One of six surviving M39s?
M42A1 Duster USA out SN 2447
M47 Patton USA out SN 7340
M48A2C USA out RN 9B1694 4
M60 USA std? SN 955
M60A3 USA std? Unconfirmed
M108 USA out
M110A1 USA out
M116 Husky USA out RN 13B262
M551 Sheridan USA out Painted RN 12C76468?
M578 USA out
M1917 USA std?
MBT-70 USA out SN 5, RN 09A 005 67;poor condition
Pbv 302 SWE out US Army RN 12?57170
Saracen GBR out
SpPz 2 Luchs DEU out
Spz 11-2 Hotchkiss Kurz FRA/DEU out
SPz 12-3 CHE/GRB/DEU out
SPz 42-1 cargo carrier FRA/DEU out
SPz Lang mortar carrier FRA/DEU out?
SPz Observation FRA/DEU out
XM800T ARSV USA out
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piney
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:43 am
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

IIRC the BA-64 may also be ex aberdeen, I'll have to check my old photos

Piney
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

Good catch piney, I forgot the museum used to have a BA-64 as well <sigh>.

Neil
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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

It is a BA-64B and it is from Aberdeen, it was captured in Korea..

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New Englan

Early Sheridan with the old style grenade launchers. This reminds me of the muzzle mod on the M-16A0 rifle.


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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

Interesting....

We (USA and West Germany) spent 6 billion dollars on all of our MBT-70s. (Note that only six were built.) Of the five built by Allison Division of General Motors, only two survive. One is in Aberdeen Proving Ground, and the other (the one we have) was used as a low-profile target. Our MBT-70 has been hit with armor-piercing bullets, and even a HEAT round. The HEAT round went through one side of the turret and melted a hole out the other end. There is no hope of restoring this tank because of a lack of spare parts and where to find spare parts. One of the unique things about this tank is that the driver is in the turret rather than the chassis. The driver had a good view as long as the MBT-70 wasn’t in any combat, but as soon as the tank enters combat, the driver has to squeeze into a cramped little hole and look through periscopes. This didn’t make the test drivers happy and nausea could be induced because the driver’s seat moved with the turret. The other main feature was the tank’s ability to “squat�. From a high of 28 inches while moving and 4.5 inches when firing, both to lower the silhouette and to provide a stable firing platform.

Military Museum of Southern New England Website
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

Yeah, lots of museums dont realize how many of such and such type still exist/survive & make claims like this. And frankly, there wasnt any good way to know any better - prior to the USA AFV Register that is Wink

Also keep in mind the museum has the JS-2 gun identified as a JS-1 gun...

Neil
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piney
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

I have a question, since the Army doesn't give away tanks only loans them out on paper is there any chance that the ex Aberdeen vehicles could be reclaimed and sent to either of the new collections? (Lee or Brag)

Piney
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

Yes... That is possible... Although probably unlikely....

Only such real reclamation I have heard of are the Ropkey items that showed up at Knox a few weeks ago - and its been quiet since then...

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:12 am
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New Englan

- piney
I have a question, since the Army doesn't give away tanks only loans them out on paper is there any chance that the ex Aberdeen vehicles could be reclaimed and sent to either of the new collections? (Lee or Brag)

Piney


While it is true the Army doesn't generally give vehicles away there was a time in the past where Army employees approved 'exchanges with private parties where the Army transferred title of items to other parties in exchange for other items. The Army has also sold items as surplus in the past.

So it is possible the museum does have 'title' to the artifacts

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:31 am
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

Yeah.... Until the US Army decides to enforce the principle that they all belong to the US government (regardless of the actions of particular museums in the past)... Wink

That being said, it doesnt seem to happen (logistical nightmare for one), with the sole exception of the Ropkey case that I've ever heard of...

Neil
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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:23 am
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

Any ideas as to why they chose to take Fred's vehicles.....must be several more out there like his...Why just go after one person?
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:52 am
Post subject: Re: Photo tour of the Military Museum of Southern New England

My suspicion is that it was retribition (the vehicles they took were clearly loaned items, in the official TACOM registry of donated items) over the Nitro M1917 tank dispute.

www.washingtonpost.com...01198.html

Note the comments by the head of the Army Donation Program... I'm just connecting the dots, but nothing more than a suspicion...

Neil
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