±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 305
Total: 305
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: News Archive
05: News Archive
06: Community Forums
07: Member Screenshots
08: Community Forums
09: Member Screenshots
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Home
25: News Archive
26: Home
27: Member Screenshots
28: Photo Gallery
29: Photo Gallery
30: Statistics
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Member Screenshots
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: News Archive
51: Your Account
52: Home
53: Member Screenshots
54: Home
55: Member Screenshots
56: Member Screenshots
57: News Archive
58: Community Forums
59: Member Screenshots
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Your Account
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Member Screenshots
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: News Archive
80: Member Screenshots
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Your Account
84: Community Forums
85: Downloads
86: Community Forums
87: News Archive
88: Downloads
89: Your Account
90: Community Forums
91: Your Account
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Photo Gallery
95: Photo Gallery
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Statistics
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Member Screenshots
105: Home
106: Member Screenshots
107: Member Screenshots
108: Photo Gallery
109: Member Screenshots
110: News Archive
111: Community Forums
112: Member Screenshots
113: Photo Gallery
114: Member Screenshots
115: Member Screenshots
116: Member Screenshots
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Member Screenshots
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: News Archive
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: News Archive
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: News Archive
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Member Screenshots
141: Community Forums
142: Member Screenshots
143: Photo Gallery
144: Home
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Downloads
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Downloads
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Member Screenshots
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Member Screenshots
172: Home
173: Member Screenshots
174: Community Forums
175: Downloads
176: News Archive
177: Home
178: Photo Gallery
179: Downloads
180: Member Screenshots
181: Home
182: Home
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: News Archive
186: Community Forums
187: Statistics
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Member Screenshots
191: Downloads
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Member Screenshots
197: Home
198: Member Screenshots
199: Community Forums
200: News Archive
201: Downloads
202: Downloads
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: News Archive
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Home
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Downloads
222: News Archive
223: Home
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Home
228: Photo Gallery
229: Home
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Member Screenshots
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Member Screenshots
239: Member Screenshots
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Member Screenshots
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: News Archive
249: Community Forums
250: Member Screenshots
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Member Screenshots
254: News Archive
255: News Archive
256: Member Screenshots
257: Statistics
258: Home
259: Member Screenshots
260: Member Screenshots
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Home
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Statistics
267: Community Forums
268: Member Screenshots
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Member Screenshots
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: News Archive
277: Photo Gallery
278: Member Screenshots
279: Photo Gallery
280: Photo Gallery
281: News Archive
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Member Screenshots
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Photo Gallery
294: Home
295: Downloads
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:21 am
Post subject: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Is there any way to tell these apart externally?

Thx,
KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:46 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Hi Kurt

the way to tell them apart is by the shape of the armored cover over the sight periscope. If it's rounded front to back it's a TTS housing, If it has a flat top it's IR/passive. Don't mean to toot my own horn but I wrote a PDF on ID'ing external features on the US M60 family. It's available as a free download from the group at this link
www.com-central.net/in...ds&get=306

Jeff "Piney" Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:23 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Piney may not want to brag about his M60 handout but I will. It used the inputs from our own 'Mr M-60' Joe_D to decide what features and variations of features were significant. Then Piney did an excellent job of illustrating those features and formatting it into an easy to carry handout.

In fact I'm glad this came up right now. My nephew will be home for Turkey day and since September lives near the M-60 in Rock Hall MD. I need him to get pictures of it for us.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:34 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Yes, it's a neat document - I'm currently using it to help me assess the characteristics of the M60's I photographed in my recent US trip. Recommended.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Piney said,

the way to tell them apart is by the shape of the armored cover over the sight periscope


Yes, that works for old photographs and display tanks where the housing hasn't been removed, which many were.

Another sure way is if the searchlight power receptacle has been welded over with a cap. IAW official records, all 748 US Army A3 Passives were depot converted to TTS by 1984. Exceptions are the 114 that were converted locally with kits, these aren't capped and retain the receptacle, Aberdeen's M60A3 is one example.

All Anniston and Mainz Tanks were produced as TTS.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:24 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

deleted after re-reading question

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"


Last edited by MarkHolloway on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Thank you gentlemen for the praise Certainly most of the credit should go to Joe D. I am glad that the booklet is proving to be useful

Piney
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:47 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

- MarkHolloway
The way I tell is the A3 has the cross-wind sensor on the back of the turret (behind loader's hatch) and it has the thermal shroud on the gun tube.

But that doesn't help to distinguish between an A3 and an A3TTS.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:52 pm
Post subject: Excellent!

Great document guys!

Two administrative questions:

1. How would people find that without asking as I did?

2. How did you produce the line drawings? Some I recognize from existing TMs or drawings but others look to be made from photos. That tool would be really useful.

Thanks again,
KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:35 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Hi Kurt

The original drawings were done with a free program called Paint.net. www.getpaint.net/ If you are familar with using what are called layers. you put a new transparent layer over the photo and in essence use the program to trace over it. a little learning curve but you get the hang of it pretty quickly. then you delete the original photo and are left with the drawing.

regarding finding the documets (I,ve done two others) go to the com central home page and click on the downloads link on the left hand side. they are in the section AFV downloads

Piney
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Kurt,

One of the many benefits of Com-Cental membership is the availability of downloads and space to have contributed items uploaded. We would always be pleased to receive any contributions to that section that you feel would be of interest to the AFV community (as they all are, I'm sure). If you need any help with that, feel free to ask. The AFV "downloads" section is here:

www.com-central.net/in...loads&c=81

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Jeff,
It's a small thing, but in looking at the bustle rack configurations in the "spotter's guide" I noticed only the partial rack option with clearance for the stowed searchlight on the M60. Such a rack could also be found on M60A1's and, in my experience, generally had the AN/VSS-1 stowed on the opposite (right) side (just under turret ventilator) with bustle rack truncated for clearance.


_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:23 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Ascout,

There should be a section showing the difference between the A1 detachable rack and the very late A1 and A3 one piece model. This is one way to ID a rebuild A3 without knowing the SN, since all new production Detroit A3's had one piece bustle racks.

The searchlight stowage was a doctrinal procedure, where the crew would only mount the searchlight when it's use was planned. The idea was it would be better protected when stowed. Eventually it was realized that it made no real difference and moving that "Big Screen TV" VSS-1 or 2 back and forward was just not necessary. As these A1's were rebuilt/ upgraded/ converted to later models, this capability was deleted and the the stowage bracket and rear interrupter was removed. Even some of the M60's that soldiered on in 80's with the National Guard had them removed.

Here's a picture from the original M60/M60A1 TM from 1965.

M60A1bustle rack

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:15 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Hi Ascout and Joe

if you to can get me the right info and a photo or two I will be glad to update the guide

Piney
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:40 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

- piney
Hi Ascout and Joe

if you to can get me the right info and a photo or two I will be glad to update the guide

Piney


We aims ta' please.

FYI, Joe (not surprizingly) is correct about storage being "planned for", usually. When I was testing the AN/VSS-1 searchlights on the M60A1, the test vehicles (there were two) did not have the stowage racks or partial bustles mounted because we never stowed the searchlights, their being always mounted for use during the test project.

You are welcome to use this if it helps.


_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum