±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 282
Total: 282
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Member Screenshots
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Downloads
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Member Screenshots
13: Home
14: Member Screenshots
15: Downloads
16: Downloads
17: Photo Gallery
18: Downloads
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Photo Gallery
24: Member Screenshots
25: Home
26: Photo Gallery
27: Home
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: News Archive
31: Home
32: Home
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Member Screenshots
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Member Screenshots
39: Community Forums
40: Your Account
41: Home
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: News Archive
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Member Screenshots
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: News Archive
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: Community Forums
62: News Archive
63: News Archive
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Downloads
68: Home
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Member Screenshots
72: Member Screenshots
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Downloads
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Home
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Home
88: Home
89: Member Screenshots
90: News Archive
91: Your Account
92: Community Forums
93: News
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Member Screenshots
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Member Screenshots
102: Your Account
103: Photo Gallery
104: Home
105: Home
106: Member Screenshots
107: Community Forums
108: Member Screenshots
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Member Screenshots
115: Community Forums
116: News
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Member Screenshots
124: Photo Gallery
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Photo Gallery
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Member Screenshots
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Downloads
139: Home
140: Downloads
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Member Screenshots
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Downloads
154: Community Forums
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Photo Gallery
162: Downloads
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Member Screenshots
167: Community Forums
168: Your Account
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Member Screenshots
173: Member Screenshots
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Home
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: Member Screenshots
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Member Screenshots
189: Member Screenshots
190: Community Forums
191: News Archive
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: News Archive
196: Downloads
197: Community Forums
198: Contact
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: News
202: News Archive
203: Home
204: Downloads
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: News Archive
209: Member Screenshots
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: News Archive
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Home
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Member Screenshots
222: Member Screenshots
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Downloads
228: News
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Member Screenshots
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Tell a Friend
237: Member Screenshots
238: Your Account
239: Community Forums
240: Downloads
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Search
248: Community Forums
249: News Archive
250: Photo Gallery
251: Photo Gallery
252: Home
253: Home
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Photo Gallery
262: Home
263: Photo Gallery
264: Photo Gallery
265: Home
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: News
270: Downloads
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Photo Gallery
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Grizzly and Sexton Versions
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bialy-r
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 06, 2009
Posts: 1233
Location: POLAND
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:33 am
Post subject: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Is that true that the early Sextons and Grizzlys where based or using parts/chassis of RAMs and where describe as Mk I.

Later it was change and Sextons and Grizzly used Grizzly program and could (Sexton for sure) be describe as Mk II.

I try to explain why one Grizzlys and Sextons have 17 gear main wheels other have 13 gear wheels.

Could I get a help with that.
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:21 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Hi Rafal,

The first batch of 125 Sexton are based on the Canadian Ram tank
The Ram tank itself was based on the automotive parts of the US M3 Lee
This version got the designation Sexton Mk I

The remaining Sexton vehicle's are based on the Canadian Grizzly tank
The Grizzly was based on the automotive parts of the US M4A1 Sherman
This version got the designation Sexton Mk II

There has not been an version of the Grizzly based on the Ram tank

see also Wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...tillery%29

The number of teeth differ because of the different type of track used.
The Grizzly tank used CDP type track that usen an 13 teeth sprocket

see also the following site
there is also an short description of the Grizzly type tank
mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/...Canada.htm


Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

So,

-we should find only CDP tracks on Grizzly tanks

-and we can find both CDP tracks and RAM tracks on Sextons (if I understand correctly).

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Sexton IIs had stowage boxes & rails on the rear decks as well IIRC.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- the_shadock
-we should find only CDP tracks on Grizzly tanks

-and we can find both CDP tracks and RAM tracks on Sextons (if I understand correctly)


I did some research and it is an little more complicated then that

CDP stands for Canadian Dry pin and was only used and tanks that where build and used by the Canadian troops

However an lot of the Canadian Sexton's Mk II went to the Britsih army and most of these where re-fitted with the Sherman type of tracks

So to keep it simple

- CDP tracks on Grizzly tanks, of which 188 where build and all where used for training purpose

- on the Sexton we could find:
Sexton Mk I : Ram track (M3 Medium) for Canadian and British vehicle's
Sexton Mk II : CDP and Sherman track for British vehicle's
Sexton Mk II : CDP for Canadian vehicle's

To make it realy complicated, at Amersfoort is an Canadian Ram II OP tank (dummy gun) that has Sherman automotive parts
So it also uses Sherman track's



However the Canadian Ram II tank (with the real 75mm gun) uses CDP track

There is more info to be found on tracks at the Sherman Register
web.inter.nl.net/users...k_vvss.htm

And on the Canadian Ram
www.mapleleafup.org/ve...c/ram.html

I'm loosing track Laughing Laughing Laughing

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- Michel_Krauss

To make it realy complicated, at Amersfoort is an Canadian Ram II OP tank (dummy gun) that has Sherman automotive parts
So it also uses Sherman track's


Michel


Popular misconception but thats a Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank - the dutch built two and the other is at Bovington


_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:39 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- JimWeb
Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank


Jim, I'm willing to believe you

however I have never heard of it and can not even find it....

What is the main difference between the two?
And where can I find some information about it??

Because, the general opinion is that it is an OP version
At least that is what the museum at Amersfoort is telling
And according Bovington the description is "Cruiser tank RAM Mk II" and that is not correct either

If it is realy an Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank
We also better tell P-O
Because it is listed as an Ram OP in the surviving Canadian & Australian list, just like the one in Bovington

I also found something else...
The one in Bovington is actualy an Dutch vehicle
On the following site, search for vehicle number "CT159418"
www.ramtank.ca/ram_mk2_5.htm

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:52 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

If some one want's to know

The Ram Kangaroo at Mill, The Netherlands
Is based on the Ram Mk I, based on the M3 Medium automotive parts

picture set from P-O Mr. Green
news.webshots.com/albu...0825TvKFmf

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:19 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

You know, I wondered about that gun on the Amersfoort vehicle when I first saw it...now I understand that it's a dummy gun.

BTW, the drive sprockets on that vehicle do not match, left and right, though both have 13 teeth. Is this usual or did they piece that together with whatever parts were available?

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:36 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- Doug_Kibbey
BTW, the drive sprockets on that vehicle do not match, left and right


Thanks for telling, to be honest I never noticed that before

I do not know if this happend very often, however for this vehicle they most likely used what there was on stock

This is what I know about the Dutch armoured force's

It was founded in 1946 after the war
For equipment they recieved equipment thzt was "borrowed" from various British and Canadian vehicle depots in Holland

In total about 150 tanks of all kinds / versions
Most of them where Canadian Ram tanks, however also various type's of Sherman tanks and 57 Firefly's

In 1951 there where 141 listed in service (including 23 Firefly's operational) of which 50% was wreckage
The wreackage was used to keep the other tanks operational Shocked

This situation remained untill 1953 when they where replaced with Centurion tanks

However in 1959 there where still 131 Shermans listed, in various operational conditions

Of these 30 Sherman M4A3 (105) where handed over to the Dutch Royal Marines, most of the remaining Sherman's going to the shooting range

The last Sherman of the Royal Marines was redrawn from service in the seventhies

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Sherman-type sprockets were fully interchangeable throughout the use of the vehicle, so after a period of use you could see any combination.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

JimWeb wrote:
Popular misconception but thats a Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank - the dutch built two and the other is at Bovington


Jim, indeed it is a target tank, but they were NOT built by the Dutch. They were part of a batch of forty-four Rams delivered in 1947. Reportedly, four were Command/O.P. tanks, the rest were Ram IIs retrofitted with the British 75mm gun.
Ref. my web: See web.inter.nl.net/users...104/nl.htm

We now know at least two were target training tanks, today many people think they are OP's.

The one at Bovington was at one time called "GIJS" (a Dutch boys name), and was exchanged for a Grizzly.

Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

If some one want's to know

The Ram Kangaroo at Mill, The Netherlands
Is based on the Ram Mk I, based on the M3 Medium automotive parts

picture set from P-O
news.webshots.com/albu...0825TvKFmf

Michel


Michel,

The Ram at Mill is a Mk.II, the fact that it is fitted with the earlier bogie style does not make it a Mk.I

The Ram Mk.I had a 2-pdr gun, the Ram Mk.II had a 6-pdr gun. Manufacturing changes are not a unique differentiator between the two marks.

Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

In total about 150 tanks of all kinds / versions
Most of them where Canadian Ram tanks, however also various type's of Sherman tanks and 57 Firefly's
[snip]
Of these 30 Sherman M4A3 (105) where handed over to the Dutch Royal Marines, most of the remaining Sherman's going to the shooting range
The last Sherman of the Royal Marines was redrawn from service in the seventhies
Michel


Michel,

Not entirely correct – please see my web page at web.inter.nl.net/users...104/nl.htm

Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Hi Hanno,

thanks for telling about the Kangaroo, I will change it in the list


However youre post about the Ram ETT Lit, also leaves an question

- Hanno_Spoelstra
and was exchanged for a Grizzly


Where did the Grizzly tank go Confused Confused Confused

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum