±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 1622
Total: 1622
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Home
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Downloads
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Downloads
20: Home
21: Statistics
22: Community Forums
23: Member Screenshots
24: Home
25: Member Screenshots
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Downloads
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Statistics
32: Member Screenshots
33: Community Forums
34: Treasury
35: Community Forums
36: Downloads
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Statistics
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Member Screenshots
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Your Account
70: Community Forums
71: Member Screenshots
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Member Screenshots
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Member Screenshots
82: Community Forums
83: Search
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Treasury
88: Home
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: LinkToUs
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Member Screenshots
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Photo Gallery
105: Photo Gallery
106: Home
107: Home
108: Home
109: Member Screenshots
110: Community Forums
111: Statistics
112: Community Forums
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Home
117: Member Screenshots
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: News Archive
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Search
129: Member Screenshots
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: News Archive
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: News Archive
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Member Screenshots
144: Community Forums
145: Statistics
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Member Screenshots
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: News Archive
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: News
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: News Archive
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Statistics
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Member Screenshots
177: Downloads
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Your Account
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Your Account
184: Home
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Member Screenshots
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Statistics
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Member Screenshots
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Photo Gallery
216: News Archive
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Member Screenshots
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Home
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: News Archive
236: Member Screenshots
237: Home
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Home
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Member Screenshots
254: Community Forums
255: Member Screenshots
256: Community Forums
257: Tell a Friend
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Your Account
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Community Forums
274: News Archive
275: Community Forums
276: Member Screenshots
277: Downloads
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Downloads
281: Community Forums
282: Member Screenshots
283: Home
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Downloads
287: Community Forums
288: Member Screenshots
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Member Screenshots
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Member Screenshots
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Member Screenshots
307: Community Forums
308: Member Screenshots
309: Community Forums
310: Downloads
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Member Screenshots
314: Member Screenshots
315: Member Screenshots
316: Home
317: Home
318: LinkToUs
319: Member Screenshots
320: Member Screenshots
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Member Screenshots
324: Community Forums
325: Statistics
326: Home
327: News Archive
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Member Screenshots
331: Community Forums
332: Photo Gallery
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Member Screenshots
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: News Archive
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Home
343: Home
344: Community Forums
345: News
346: Search
347: Your Account
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Member Screenshots
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Your Account
355: Home
356: Community Forums
357: Home
358: Community Forums
359: Statistics
360: Community Forums
361: Your Account
362: Community Forums
363: Photo Gallery
364: News Archive
365: Community Forums
366: News Archive
367: Statistics
368: Statistics
369: Photo Gallery
370: Member Screenshots
371: Community Forums
372: Member Screenshots
373: Home
374: Member Screenshots
375: News Archive
376: Member Screenshots
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Statistics
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: News Archive
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Home
406: Community Forums
407: News Archive
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: News Archive
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Home
420: News Archive
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Statistics
424: Photo Gallery
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Home
435: Member Screenshots
436: Downloads
437: Community Forums
438: Your Account
439: Photo Gallery
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Member Screenshots
443: Community Forums
444: Photo Gallery
445: News
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Member Screenshots
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Statistics
457: Downloads
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Photo Gallery
465: Statistics
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Home
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: News Archive
474: Home
475: Downloads
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Member Screenshots
479: Member Screenshots
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: Community Forums
488: Downloads
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: News Archive
492: Downloads
493: Community Forums
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Home
497: Photo Gallery
498: Downloads
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Photo Gallery
508: Photo Gallery
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Downloads
512: Downloads
513: Home
514: Home
515: Home
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Downloads
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Home
528: Home
529: Downloads
530: Member Screenshots
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Home
536: Home
537: Member Screenshots
538: News Archive
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Home
543: News Archive
544: Community Forums
545: News Archive
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Home
555: Photo Gallery
556: Community Forums
557: Downloads
558: Community Forums
559: Photo Gallery
560: News Archive
561: Home
562: Home
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Photo Gallery
567: News
568: Home
569: Home
570: Community Forums
571: Search
572: Photo Gallery
573: Home
574: Photo Gallery
575: Photo Gallery
576: Downloads
577: Downloads
578: Photo Gallery
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Home
582: Community Forums
583: News Archive
584: Home
585: Community Forums
586: Home
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Home
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Home
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Member Screenshots
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Home
601: News Archive
602: Photo Gallery
603: Member Screenshots
604: News Archive
605: Home
606: Statistics
607: Home
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Statistics
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Home
615: Community Forums
616: Downloads
617: Community Forums
618: Home
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Home
623: Home
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Home
627: Photo Gallery
628: Photo Gallery
629: Home
630: Downloads
631: Community Forums
632: News Archive
633: Community Forums
634: Home
635: Community Forums
636: News Archive
637: Community Forums
638: Member Screenshots
639: Home
640: Downloads
641: Home
642: News Archive
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Member Screenshots
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Photo Gallery
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Photo Gallery
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Photo Gallery
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: News Archive
664: Community Forums
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Member Screenshots
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Photo Gallery
674: Member Screenshots
675: News
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Photo Gallery
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Photo Gallery
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Photo Gallery
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Photo Gallery
693: Photo Gallery
694: News Archive
695: Home
696: Home
697: Statistics
698: Community Forums
699: Downloads
700: Statistics
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Photo Gallery
706: Home
707: Community Forums
708: Downloads
709: News Archive
710: Community Forums
711: Photo Gallery
712: Community Forums
713: Your Account
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: News Archive
720: Community Forums
721: Photo Gallery
722: Home
723: Photo Gallery
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Home
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: News Archive
733: News Archive
734: Photo Gallery
735: Your Account
736: Member Screenshots
737: News Archive
738: Statistics
739: Community Forums
740: Community Forums
741: News
742: Community Forums
743: Photo Gallery
744: Community Forums
745: Community Forums
746: Downloads
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Statistics
750: Home
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Photo Gallery
755: Community Forums
756: Member Screenshots
757: Community Forums
758: Photo Gallery
759: Home
760: Your Account
761: Community Forums
762: Photo Gallery
763: Photo Gallery
764: Downloads
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Home
769: Community Forums
770: Your Account
771: Member Screenshots
772: Community Forums
773: Member Screenshots
774: Home
775: Photo Gallery
776: Home
777: News Archive
778: Community Forums
779: LinkToUs
780: Home
781: Community Forums
782: Photo Gallery
783: Community Forums
784: Community Forums
785: Community Forums
786: Community Forums
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums
789: Member Screenshots
790: Downloads
791: Community Forums
792: Community Forums
793: Community Forums
794: Community Forums
795: News Archive
796: Member Screenshots
797: Home
798: Home
799: Community Forums
800: Photo Gallery
801: Community Forums
802: Community Forums
803: Community Forums
804: Community Forums
805: Community Forums
806: Home
807: Community Forums
808: Community Forums
809: News Archive
810: Home
811: Community Forums
812: Community Forums
813: Member Screenshots
814: Home
815: Home
816: Community Forums
817: Community Forums
818: Community Forums
819: Community Forums
820: Downloads
821: Community Forums
822: Downloads
823: Member Screenshots
824: Your Account
825: Home
826: Photo Gallery
827: Community Forums
828: Downloads
829: Community Forums
830: Member Screenshots
831: Member Screenshots
832: Community Forums
833: Community Forums
834: Home
835: Community Forums
836: Photo Gallery
837: Photo Gallery
838: Photo Gallery
839: Community Forums
840: Community Forums
841: Photo Gallery
842: Community Forums
843: Home
844: News Archive
845: News Archive
846: Community Forums
847: Community Forums
848: Downloads
849: Community Forums
850: Community Forums
851: Community Forums
852: Community Forums
853: Community Forums
854: Community Forums
855: Community Forums
856: Member Screenshots
857: Photo Gallery
858: Member Screenshots
859: Home
860: Home
861: Photo Gallery
862: Community Forums
863: Photo Gallery
864: Member Screenshots
865: Community Forums
866: Community Forums
867: Community Forums
868: Community Forums
869: Community Forums
870: Home
871: Member Screenshots
872: Home
873: Community Forums
874: Community Forums
875: Home
876: Photo Gallery
877: Community Forums
878: Home
879: Community Forums
880: Member Screenshots
881: Community Forums
882: Member Screenshots
883: Home
884: Community Forums
885: Downloads
886: Member Screenshots
887: Home
888: Community Forums
889: Photo Gallery
890: Home
891: Photo Gallery
892: Supporters
893: Home
894: Community Forums
895: Home
896: Community Forums
897: Home
898: Community Forums
899: Photo Gallery
900: Community Forums
901: Photo Gallery
902: Community Forums
903: Member Screenshots
904: Community Forums
905: Community Forums
906: Community Forums
907: Community Forums
908: News Archive
909: Home
910: Photo Gallery
911: Community Forums
912: Home
913: Community Forums
914: Home
915: Community Forums
916: Home
917: Member Screenshots
918: Community Forums
919: Your Account
920: Community Forums
921: Photo Gallery
922: News Archive
923: Community Forums
924: Community Forums
925: Home
926: Community Forums
927: Community Forums
928: Member Screenshots
929: Community Forums
930: Community Forums
931: Community Forums
932: Photo Gallery
933: Community Forums
934: Community Forums
935: Community Forums
936: Community Forums
937: Community Forums
938: Home
939: Community Forums
940: Member Screenshots
941: Downloads
942: Community Forums
943: Photo Gallery
944: Community Forums
945: Community Forums
946: Community Forums
947: Community Forums
948: Member Screenshots
949: News Archive
950: Photo Gallery
951: Community Forums
952: Community Forums
953: Community Forums
954: Downloads
955: Community Forums
956: Community Forums
957: Community Forums
958: Community Forums
959: Downloads
960: Community Forums
961: Member Screenshots
962: Statistics
963: Community Forums
964: Home
965: Community Forums
966: Home
967: Home
968: Home
969: Member Screenshots
970: Photo Gallery
971: Home
972: News Archive
973: Community Forums
974: Community Forums
975: Home
976: Photo Gallery
977: Community Forums
978: Member Screenshots
979: Photo Gallery
980: Home
981: Statistics
982: Community Forums
983: Downloads
984: Community Forums
985: Member Screenshots
986: Photo Gallery
987: Member Screenshots
988: Community Forums
989: Community Forums
990: Member Screenshots
991: Community Forums
992: Home
993: Community Forums
994: Community Forums
995: Community Forums
996: Community Forums
997: Member Screenshots
998: Community Forums
999: Photo Gallery
1000: Downloads
1001: Community Forums
1002: Photo Gallery
1003: Photo Gallery
1004: Community Forums
1005: Community Forums
1006: News Archive
1007: Photo Gallery
1008: Community Forums
1009: Photo Gallery
1010: Downloads
1011: Community Forums
1012: Home
1013: Supporters
1014: Community Forums
1015: Community Forums
1016: Member Screenshots
1017: Community Forums
1018: Home
1019: Photo Gallery
1020: Member Screenshots
1021: Home
1022: Community Forums
1023: Home
1024: Community Forums
1025: Community Forums
1026: News
1027: Photo Gallery
1028: Community Forums
1029: Community Forums
1030: Photo Gallery
1031: Home
1032: Community Forums
1033: Community Forums
1034: Your Account
1035: Community Forums
1036: Community Forums
1037: Community Forums
1038: Community Forums
1039: Community Forums
1040: Community Forums
1041: Home
1042: Home
1043: Photo Gallery
1044: News Archive
1045: Downloads
1046: Downloads
1047: Home
1048: Home
1049: Community Forums
1050: Community Forums
1051: Home
1052: Community Forums
1053: Home
1054: Community Forums
1055: Community Forums
1056: Photo Gallery
1057: Community Forums
1058: Community Forums
1059: Community Forums
1060: Member Screenshots
1061: Downloads
1062: Home
1063: Community Forums
1064: Member Screenshots
1065: Member Screenshots
1066: News Archive
1067: Photo Gallery
1068: Home
1069: Home
1070: Photo Gallery
1071: Photo Gallery
1072: Community Forums
1073: Community Forums
1074: Downloads
1075: Community Forums
1076: Home
1077: Community Forums
1078: Community Forums
1079: Community Forums
1080: Community Forums
1081: Community Forums
1082: Downloads
1083: Community Forums
1084: Community Forums
1085: Community Forums
1086: Home
1087: Community Forums
1088: Downloads
1089: Home
1090: Member Screenshots
1091: Statistics
1092: Community Forums
1093: Home
1094: Member Screenshots
1095: Photo Gallery
1096: Downloads
1097: Community Forums
1098: Community Forums
1099: Community Forums
1100: Community Forums
1101: Member Screenshots
1102: Home
1103: News Archive
1104: Community Forums
1105: Community Forums
1106: Home
1107: Community Forums
1108: Community Forums
1109: Member Screenshots
1110: Home
1111: Photo Gallery
1112: Home
1113: Community Forums
1114: Home
1115: Downloads
1116: Home
1117: Photo Gallery
1118: Home
1119: Community Forums
1120: Community Forums
1121: Downloads
1122: Member Screenshots
1123: News Archive
1124: Community Forums
1125: Community Forums
1126: Community Forums
1127: Community Forums
1128: Photo Gallery
1129: Home
1130: Home
1131: Community Forums
1132: Community Forums
1133: Statistics
1134: Home
1135: Home
1136: Home
1137: Photo Gallery
1138: Community Forums
1139: Community Forums
1140: News Archive
1141: Community Forums
1142: Your Account
1143: Community Forums
1144: Community Forums
1145: Community Forums
1146: Community Forums
1147: Community Forums
1148: Community Forums
1149: Home
1150: Community Forums
1151: Community Forums
1152: Community Forums
1153: Community Forums
1154: Community Forums
1155: Community Forums
1156: Member Screenshots
1157: Community Forums
1158: Community Forums
1159: Community Forums
1160: News
1161: Community Forums
1162: News Archive
1163: Photo Gallery
1164: News Archive
1165: Community Forums
1166: Community Forums
1167: Photo Gallery
1168: Home
1169: Home
1170: Community Forums
1171: Downloads
1172: Community Forums
1173: Community Forums
1174: Home
1175: Member Screenshots
1176: Community Forums
1177: News Archive
1178: Photo Gallery
1179: Community Forums
1180: Community Forums
1181: Community Forums
1182: Photo Gallery
1183: News Archive
1184: Community Forums
1185: News Archive
1186: Photo Gallery
1187: Member Screenshots
1188: Community Forums
1189: Community Forums
1190: News Archive
1191: Photo Gallery
1192: Community Forums
1193: Community Forums
1194: Home
1195: Member Screenshots
1196: Community Forums
1197: Member Screenshots
1198: Community Forums
1199: News Archive
1200: Home
1201: Community Forums
1202: Home
1203: Home
1204: Photo Gallery
1205: Home
1206: News Archive
1207: Home
1208: Home
1209: Contact
1210: Community Forums
1211: Community Forums
1212: Community Forums
1213: Statistics
1214: Community Forums
1215: Member Screenshots
1216: Statistics
1217: Community Forums
1218: Community Forums
1219: Home
1220: Downloads
1221: Home
1222: Community Forums
1223: Community Forums
1224: Community Forums
1225: Community Forums
1226: Member Screenshots
1227: Member Screenshots
1228: Community Forums
1229: Photo Gallery
1230: Community Forums
1231: Community Forums
1232: Home
1233: Member Screenshots
1234: Statistics
1235: Community Forums
1236: Community Forums
1237: Community Forums
1238: Downloads
1239: Home
1240: Home
1241: Community Forums
1242: Member Screenshots
1243: Home
1244: Downloads
1245: Community Forums
1246: Community Forums
1247: Community Forums
1248: Community Forums
1249: Member Screenshots
1250: Home
1251: Community Forums
1252: Community Forums
1253: Home
1254: Photo Gallery
1255: Community Forums
1256: Downloads
1257: Community Forums
1258: Community Forums
1259: Photo Gallery
1260: Your Account
1261: Photo Gallery
1262: Home
1263: Photo Gallery
1264: Your Account
1265: Community Forums
1266: Community Forums
1267: Community Forums
1268: Member Screenshots
1269: Community Forums
1270: Home
1271: Community Forums
1272: Community Forums
1273: Community Forums
1274: Community Forums
1275: Community Forums
1276: Home
1277: Home
1278: Photo Gallery
1279: Home
1280: Home
1281: Community Forums
1282: Home
1283: Statistics
1284: Community Forums
1285: Community Forums
1286: News Archive
1287: News Archive
1288: Home
1289: Community Forums
1290: Member Screenshots
1291: Community Forums
1292: Community Forums
1293: Community Forums
1294: Community Forums
1295: Home
1296: Community Forums
1297: Photo Gallery
1298: Community Forums
1299: Community Forums
1300: Community Forums
1301: Member Screenshots
1302: Home
1303: Member Screenshots
1304: News Archive
1305: Community Forums
1306: Home
1307: Home
1308: Community Forums
1309: Community Forums
1310: Community Forums
1311: Tell a Friend
1312: Community Forums
1313: Community Forums
1314: Home
1315: Member Screenshots
1316: Community Forums
1317: Community Forums
1318: Home
1319: Photo Gallery
1320: Statistics
1321: Community Forums
1322: Community Forums
1323: Home
1324: Community Forums
1325: Community Forums
1326: Community Forums
1327: Community Forums
1328: Member Screenshots
1329: Statistics
1330: Photo Gallery
1331: Photo Gallery
1332: Home
1333: Community Forums
1334: Community Forums
1335: News
1336: Photo Gallery
1337: Community Forums
1338: Home
1339: Community Forums
1340: Community Forums
1341: Photo Gallery
1342: Community Forums
1343: Community Forums
1344: Home
1345: Photo Gallery
1346: Community Forums
1347: Photo Gallery
1348: Home
1349: Community Forums
1350: Member Screenshots
1351: Community Forums
1352: Community Forums
1353: Community Forums
1354: Community Forums
1355: Community Forums
1356: Home
1357: Community Forums
1358: Photo Gallery
1359: Member Screenshots
1360: Community Forums
1361: Community Forums
1362: Community Forums
1363: Downloads
1364: Community Forums
1365: Home
1366: Photo Gallery
1367: Home
1368: Community Forums
1369: Community Forums
1370: Community Forums
1371: Home
1372: Home
1373: Photo Gallery
1374: Community Forums
1375: Home
1376: Photo Gallery
1377: Community Forums
1378: Community Forums
1379: News Archive
1380: Member Screenshots
1381: Home
1382: Downloads
1383: Community Forums
1384: Photo Gallery
1385: Photo Gallery
1386: Community Forums
1387: Community Forums
1388: Home
1389: Member Screenshots
1390: Member Screenshots
1391: Statistics
1392: Community Forums
1393: Community Forums
1394: Home
1395: Community Forums
1396: Community Forums
1397: Photo Gallery
1398: Community Forums
1399: Community Forums
1400: Member Screenshots
1401: Home
1402: Home
1403: Downloads
1404: Community Forums
1405: Member Screenshots
1406: Community Forums
1407: Community Forums
1408: Community Forums
1409: Downloads
1410: Downloads
1411: Community Forums
1412: Community Forums
1413: Member Screenshots
1414: Photo Gallery
1415: Member Screenshots
1416: Community Forums
1417: Member Screenshots
1418: News Archive
1419: Community Forums
1420: Community Forums
1421: Community Forums
1422: Community Forums
1423: Photo Gallery
1424: Home
1425: Community Forums
1426: Statistics
1427: Community Forums
1428: Photo Gallery
1429: Community Forums
1430: Community Forums
1431: Home
1432: Community Forums
1433: Community Forums
1434: Member Screenshots
1435: Community Forums
1436: Community Forums
1437: Statistics
1438: Community Forums
1439: Photo Gallery
1440: Home
1441: Community Forums
1442: Community Forums
1443: Photo Gallery
1444: Community Forums
1445: Home
1446: Community Forums
1447: Photo Gallery
1448: Photo Gallery
1449: News Archive
1450: Home
1451: Community Forums
1452: Member Screenshots
1453: Community Forums
1454: Community Forums
1455: Community Forums
1456: Community Forums
1457: Home
1458: Home
1459: Community Forums
1460: Community Forums
1461: Community Forums
1462: Community Forums
1463: Home
1464: Photo Gallery
1465: Community Forums
1466: Community Forums
1467: Community Forums
1468: Community Forums
1469: Community Forums
1470: Community Forums
1471: Home
1472: Community Forums
1473: Community Forums
1474: Community Forums
1475: Community Forums
1476: Community Forums
1477: News Archive
1478: Community Forums
1479: Community Forums
1480: Community Forums
1481: Community Forums
1482: News Archive
1483: Downloads
1484: Community Forums
1485: Photo Gallery
1486: Community Forums
1487: Home
1488: Photo Gallery
1489: Downloads
1490: Downloads
1491: Community Forums
1492: Member Screenshots
1493: Community Forums
1494: Photo Gallery
1495: Community Forums
1496: Community Forums
1497: Community Forums
1498: Community Forums
1499: Community Forums
1500: Community Forums
1501: Community Forums
1502: Member Screenshots
1503: Downloads
1504: Home
1505: Downloads
1506: Community Forums
1507: Photo Gallery
1508: Community Forums
1509: Home
1510: Community Forums
1511: Member Screenshots
1512: Home
1513: Community Forums
1514: Community Forums
1515: Community Forums
1516: Community Forums
1517: Photo Gallery
1518: Community Forums
1519: Member Screenshots
1520: Photo Gallery
1521: Community Forums
1522: Community Forums
1523: Community Forums
1524: Home
1525: Community Forums
1526: Home
1527: Community Forums
1528: Statistics
1529: Community Forums
1530: Community Forums
1531: News
1532: News Archive
1533: Community Forums
1534: Community Forums
1535: Downloads
1536: Community Forums
1537: Community Forums
1538: Community Forums
1539: Statistics
1540: Photo Gallery
1541: Community Forums
1542: Home
1543: Photo Gallery
1544: Downloads
1545: Photo Gallery
1546: Community Forums
1547: Photo Gallery
1548: Photo Gallery
1549: Community Forums
1550: Photo Gallery
1551: News Archive
1552: Home
1553: Photo Gallery
1554: Home
1555: Community Forums
1556: Photo Gallery
1557: Community Forums
1558: Community Forums
1559: Downloads
1560: Community Forums
1561: Community Forums
1562: Community Forums
1563: Community Forums
1564: Community Forums
1565: Member Screenshots
1566: Community Forums
1567: Community Forums
1568: Home
1569: Home
1570: Downloads
1571: Community Forums
1572: Community Forums
1573: Community Forums
1574: News Archive
1575: Community Forums
1576: Community Forums
1577: Home
1578: Community Forums
1579: Home
1580: Member Screenshots
1581: Community Forums
1582: Home
1583: Home
1584: Home
1585: Community Forums
1586: Community Forums
1587: Community Forums
1588: Home
1589: Home
1590: Community Forums
1591: Community Forums
1592: Photo Gallery
1593: Community Forums
1594: Community Forums
1595: Community Forums
1596: Member Screenshots
1597: Downloads
1598: News Archive
1599: Home
1600: Community Forums
1601: Member Screenshots
1602: Treasury
1603: Home
1604: Member Screenshots
1605: Community Forums
1606: Community Forums
1607: Community Forums
1608: Home
1609: Home
1610: Member Screenshots
1611: Photo Gallery
1612: Community Forums
1613: Member Screenshots
1614: Home
1615: Community Forums
1616: Community Forums
1617: Search
1618: Photo Gallery
1619: Home
1620: Downloads
1621: Member Screenshots
1622: Member Screenshots

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Peter_Dow
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 01, 2010
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:28 pm
Post subject: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

- Wikipedia
MRAP (armored vehicle)

Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles are a family of armored fighting vehicles designed to survive IED attacks and ambushes. IEDs cause the majority (63%) of US deaths in Iraq.
...
A June 13 report by the Marine Corps Center for Lessons Learned indicated concerns about MRAP vehicles rolling over in combat zones.

The V-shaped hulls of the MRAP give it a higher center of gravity and the weight of the MRAP can cause the poorly built or maintained roads in rural Iraq or Afghanistan to collapse.

Of the 66 MRAP accidents between Nov. 7, 2007 and June 8, 2008, almost 40 were due to rollovers caused by bad roads, weak bridges, or driver error.

In many of the rollovers troops were injured, and in two separate incidents five soldiers have been killed by rolling over into a canal and getting trapped under water. The report said 75% of all rollovers occurred in rural areas often when the road is above grade and a ditch or canal full of water is next to it.


OK so that is the problem and there is an obvious vehicle modification to counter the roll-over problem which is to fit stabilisers, adopting the same concept employed in a child's bicycle.





The simplest and cheapest way to do this would be have bolt on stabilisers which could be partially unbolted to fold up when not required while driving on good flat roads but where the additional width of the stabilisers would cause problems, such as when travelling along narrow roads, needing to negotiate dense traffic such as in urban roads.

The high-tech and expensive solution would be stabilisers which fold-up or deploy automatically using hydraulics at the touch of a driver's button.

However, when you compare the expense of a good solution to the expense of lives lost by MRAP rollovers then it is a small price to pay.

OK that idea is adapting the existing MRAPs but here is an idea for a completely new design of MRAP. :idea:

The catamaran tank - an MRAP which doesn't roll over!



Conjoined All-Terrain Anti-Mine Ambush Repellent Armoured Next-generation (CATAMARAN) Vehicle
© Peter Dow
The CATAMARAN vehicle concept is the original idea of Peter Dow of Aberdeen, Scotland and was published on 26th July 2010. All copyrights are retained by Peter Dow.



A catamaran - the inspiration for a twin-hulled armoured vehicle

The catamaran tank or catamaran MRAP or catamaran armoured vehicle or catamaran armored vehicle - you heard it here first!

One idea I have for a completely new design to counter ground-blasts yet retain stability would be a double-hull or catamaran tank.

To explain, let us describe most simply the current MRAP vehicle design as an M-shape, looking at the vehicle from the front or the rear, with a high middle, and a V-shaped hull, armoured to deflect the blasts.

Well the concept of the catamaran tank is to replace the M-shape with something more like a Y''Y-shape which is a lot wider for stability and so may not be so good in narrow streets or traffic admittedly.

The central double quotes in the Y"Y-shape represents a line of strong blast-chimneys up through the middle of the vehicle, from front to rear, which some of the blast could go up without splitting the vehicle in two.

This twin-hull, double-hull MRAP would give two distinct cabins on the left and right of the vehicle and however high you need the vehicle to get distance from a ground blast then make the Ys bigger and so further apart which keeps stability.

The leg of the Ys could have blast ventilation holes so that blast gas under the vehicle can escape to the sides as well as up the central chimneys. The more ways the blast gas can escape from under the vehicle the less force the blast will apply against the vehicle itself.

The bottom of the Ys could be either wheels or tracks depending on what ground conditions you are designing the vehicle for and need to cope with.

This dear forum members is the catamaran tank - my idea and you heard it here first. Copyright © Peter Dow, 26th July, 2010.

Considering the wheeled version of the catamaran tank only for now.

My proposal is that the left and right sides while separated are 4 wheeled vehicles which you can drive independently, call those "half-vehicles" Y-sides.

The Y-sides are tall and narrow and even less stable than an MRAP while separated but loading and unloading on and off transport and manoeuvring the sides in position to connect together the stability is sufficient.

Then, when you come to bolt the two Y-sides together there are a number of choices as to how wide apart the left and right hand Y-sides are fixed.

I'll type in some figures so you can see what I mean.

Say, the separated Y-sides are 4 feet wide.

Well for example, the connecting bars or tubes could hold the left and rights Y-sides together separated by these example widths:

  • 1 foot, Y1Y so the total width is 4 + 1 + 4 = 9 feet - no wider than a Cougar MRAP and so as stable as todays MRAPs and narrow enough for urban roads and traffic.
  • 4 feet, Y4Y so the total width is 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 feet, the same as an M1 battle tank, good for country roads, stable but narrow enough to get across most bridges no problem.
  • 8 feet, Y8Y so the total width is 4 + 8 + 4 = 16 feet, super-stable for open cross country off road where the extra width is no problem for crossing bridges or fitting on roads because there are no roads maybe nothing more than a dirt track of uncertain width itself, maybe nothing but rough ground and rivers need to be forded or not crossed at all and then the extra stability is purely a bonus with no disadvantage of extra width.

The vehicle could even carry the different lengths of connecting bars or tubes for the crew to swap round to change vehicle width which they can do themselves anywhere they can find a flat piece of ground - no special facilities required.



When you change configuration you are changing the connecting bars between the two Y-side vehicles.

So the mechanic or the trained crew would
  • unbolt and remove the connecting bars you want to change
  • drive one of the Y-sides to about the right new position for the new bars
  • attach the bars and tighten them up to bring the Y-sides to the right distance apart.

Well there must be many ways of doing this but here is one suggestion.

The diagram shows how the connecting bars bolt on to the vehicle on one side. The other side is symmetrically the same.



  1. The lug welded to the vehicle side (left) bolts to the clevis (at "A" in the diagram) and before the nut is tightened the clevis can rotate.
  2. The clevis slots in and bolts to the box section (at "B" in the diagram). The clevis is able to rotate here too before the nut is tightened because the clevis is narrower than the inner dimension of the box section, height-wise in the diagram, though breadth-wise the fit is snug to allow the bolt to tighten when required without bending the box section.
  3. The connecting bar slots snugly inside the box section (snug both height-wise and breadth wise) and they bolt together (at "C" in the diagram) using holes drilled so that when the connecting bar is butting firmly up to the clevis it bolts together. The butting remains firmly the same independent of the rotation of the clevis inside the box section because the end of the clevis is shaped according to a circular arc centred around the bolt hole.
  4. The procedure to connect the two Y-sides vehicles together is that you manoeuvre one vehicle to a position where you can loosely connect the bolts at points A and B so that the box section while fixed to the vehicle has some movement in two degrees of rotational freedom and the connecting bar is sliding inside both box sections at either end but not able to fall out.

    This means that the vehicles will be separated by slightly more than the distance that they will finally be fixed at and typically a variable distance apart from front to back, bottom to top. There are too many variables to expect anything else.

    If the Y-sides are too far apart then the connecting bars will fall out of the box sections; too close and the connecting bars won't fit between the ends of the clevises.

    OK so you fit all the connecting bars like that then winch the vehicles together using two winches, firstly using winch anchor points low down near the wheels - low so as to mostly drag the vehicles together, not just tilt them over!

    This will bring the vehicles together until you can slot in the bolts and put the nuts on in the lower connecting bars anyway.

    Then you move the winch to higher winch attachment points near the middle and get enough tension on the winch line to bring the vehicles parallel and you can then slot in all the bolts in and tighten up all the nuts!


The connecting bars are not designed to be all parallel to each other. Some need to be at angles so as to form rigid triangles both horizontally and vertically for stiffness.

The "deluxe" or "transformer" version of the CATAMARAN vehicle could have the Y-sides connected by telescoping connecting tubes which could be extended by hydraulics and shortened by winches to allow the driver to change vehicle width at the touch of a button!

When the two Y-sides are connected together, the steering mechanisms of the two Y-sides are mechanically coupled together and have powered steering as well!

The CATAMARAN Vehicle still has V-shaped hulls to deflect the blast. It just has 2 V-shaped hulls, each of half the width of a single V-shaped hull.

The CATAMARAN Vehicle can have the same total area of V-shaped hull measured in the horizontal plane as a single-hulled MRAP!

To lessen the blast forces tending to split the two V-shaped hulls apart, the Vs are angled slightly to form a vertical blast chimney.



The CATAMARAN Vehicle twin-hull design does increase somewhat the total area and weight of the hull armour for the same protected area in the horizontal plane.

Steel safety cables complement the connecting bars or tubes to provide additional hold between the two Y-sides to prevent the two Y-sides being blasted apart.

There is not much more area in the horizontal plane for the explosive force to react with in the catamaran tank because the space between the two hulls is mostly empty space with just connecting bars or tubes!

The benefit is this - it doesn't roll over!

The catamaran tank - an MRAP which doesn't roll over!

MRAP luggage compartments / trailers / passenger trailers

MRAP luggage compartments / trailers / passenger trailers are something I want to feature in my new design.

It isn't really a "catamaran" feature particularly because a mono-hull MRAP could have a luggage compartment, outside the armour-protected volume and trailers are already available for today's MRAPs. A trailer is a trailer, right?

But I hear complaints from many sources about passenger cabins not being spacious, can't afford to make them smaller and so on.

The thing is, if you always put the gear the troops are carrying (heavy guns and ammunition etc.) in a trailer it saves space in the passenger cabin right?

So then the armoured passenger cabins could be made smaller, and the gear stored in a non-armoured volume, either a luggage compartment - a boot or a trunk which can be low, lowering centre of gravity, or in a trailer, which also takes the weight off the MRAP wheels which helps to prevent road collapse.

So for all kinds of reasons I am thinking that pulling a luggage trailer and a non-armoured boot/trunk should be integral to a good MRAP design, not just an optional extra.

So why don't MRAPs use trailers more, when road collapse, heavy weight on the wheels is such a problem?

I know that to use or not to use a trailer is an operational decision that the military make but if anyone knew if trailers were a bad idea for some reason, then would you please point that out.

OK for existing MRAPs (some of which don't have a fixed gun) I can see why the passengers want to keep their weapons with them so that they can dismount guns blazing.

Frankly, a "no fixed gun" APC is a really bad design in my opinion. Even one gun is too little in my opinion.

Defence against ambush is why you need fixed guns on every APC roof.

My design would include a minimum of one gun on each side of the catamaran MRAP.

Actually, I would like 4 guns on top; that is possible and if you read on I will explain how.

Only the guns and video cameras (2 per gun, one wide-angle, the other telescopic sights) need to be on the roof. There is no need for a gunner up top in a gunner's turret with all the high up weight and instability that causes.

The gunner can be sat in the cabin with the rest of the crew and fire and aim the gun from below.

Think of a submarine periscope in terms of turning and aiming the gun, although the gunner would remain seated in one position if he (or she) views the gun camera views on a LCD display. Push buttons to change camera view and push button to fire.

For reloading "the periscope" can come down to allow the gunner to reach the gun to reload in safety.

2 or 4 guns, medium machine guns can be up top and because there is no armour up there, it could work out with a lower centre of gravity than one gunner with an armoured turret.

There is no reason why passengers cannot always carry a handgun which takes up no space. That and cover from fixed guns should be sufficient I would have thought.

Sure I could imagine a scenario when you'd really like to fire a guided missile the second you open the passenger door.

Well you still could do that and carry weapons inside in a smaller cabin if you were not carrying a full load of passengers.

MRAP armoured passenger trailers



In fact, why not have an armoured trailer with a V-shaped hull (or two V-shaped hulls for a catamaran trailer) and carry some of the passengers there?

Then you could really reduce the weight of the MRAP - a much smaller front cabin, much less volume needing protecting in the front vehicle, spreading the weight across more wheels.

Of course an armoured passenger trailer would have guns of its own as well.

I think the armoured passenger trailer idea is a winner, catamaran or no catamaran and it is a concern that existing MRAPs don't use this concept already.

The CATAMARAN vehicle can rotate on the spot!

It is proposed that the CATAMARAN vehicle will have impressive manoeuvring and tight turning abilities, despite its size - including an ability to rotate on the spot as tracked tanks can do.

The trailer, although optional, when it is fitted, it will be attached to the powered and driven front of the vehicle by hinges allowing the front and rear parts of the vehicle to pivot relative to each other in the vertical plane thus keeping the driven rear wheels on the ground but the hinges will not allow any relative movement to the left or right, so as to keep the body and the wheels in alignment.

There are 3 pairs of axles -
  1. front wheel drive steered axles, (left and right)
  2. rear wheel drive fixed axles, (left and right) and
  3. trailer wheel steered axles, (left and right).
The trailer wheels will steer coupled to the front wheels but in an opposite clockwise / anti-clockwise sense to the front wheel.

Each Y-side of the vehicle will have 4-wheels driven so with "4-wheel drive" on both the left and right Y-sides, one might note that the whole vehicle has 8 driven wheels, not just the 4.

CATAMARAN Vehicle Steering Geometry Normal steering


What this arrangement allows is that even with the trailer fitted, the vehicle can be reversed easily. Normally trailers are a nightmare to reverse. The CATAMARAN vehicle will be a dream to reverse.

In addition the CATAMARAN vehicle can rotate about a spot in the middle between the powered rear wheels. It achieves this special ability by virtue of certain design features -

  • A first gear which is a low gear for manoeuvring and has a gearing ratio precisely the same as the reverse gear

    Two additional rotational gear modes -
  • Clockwise - when the left side gearbox of the vehicle is automatically put into first gear and the right side gearbox of the vehicle is automatically put into reverse gear.
  • Anti-clockwise - when the left side gearbox of the vehicle is automatically put into reverse gear and the right side gearbox of the vehicle is automatically put into first gear
When either clockwise or anti-clockwise gear is selected, the mechanical coupling normally engaged between the left and right hand steering is automatically disengaged and the left hand wheels are automatically turned to hard right hand turn lock and the right hand wheels are automatically turned to hard left hand turn lock; those two hard turn lock stops are designed so that the steered wheels are pointed in the correct direction for vehicle rotation.

Whenever either of the two rotational gear modes is deselected and the gear shift is put into neutral, the mechanical coupling between left and right hand steering is re-engaged and the wheels returned to the appropriate direction as determined by the driver's steering wheel which was redundant during the selection of either of the rotational gears.

CATAMARAN Vehicle Steering Geometry Rotational steering


The CATAMARAN Vehicle vs. the MRAP. Which is better?

Compare and contrast the features of the CATAMARAN Vehicle against the MRAP it is designed to replace.

  • The CATAMARAN vehicle is not taller than an MRAP with a gun turret.
  • Yes the CATAMARAN vehicle will be taller including the height of its guns than an MRAP without a gun turret but the CATAMARAN vehicle's automatic guns are quite light and don't raise the height of the centre of gravity much and maybe has a lower centre of gravity than an MRAP with a gun turret with armour and gunner up top as well.
  • The CATAMARAN vehicle can be the same width as an MRAP when configured narrow, such as Y1Y at 9 feet wide. It can be narrower, the same width or wider than a tank to suit the roads or terrain.
  • The CATAMARAN vehicle will be as fast as an MRAP without the trailer on a straight road. It will be much faster off road, with or without trailer, because it won't roll over and a rolled over MRAP is a slow as you can get; you'd be faster on a donkey!
  • The CATAMARAN vehicle will be as well armoured as an MRAP.
  • The CATAMARAN vehicle will have as much internal cargo space without the trailer and more internal cargo space with the trailer compared to an MRAP.
  • The CATAMARAN vehicle offers the possibility, depending on the width configuration, of additional external cargo space by strapping certain loads, which don't require armoured protection, to the connecting bars in between the two halves of the vehicle.
  • The CATAMARAN vehicle will very manoeuvrable even with the trailer attached so its length is no big deal.
  • The CATAMARAN vehicle will have more firepower than an MRAP. Two roof mounted machine guns without the trailer, 4 guns with the trailer.
  • The CATAMARAN vehicle is "ambush repellent". whereas the MRAP is only "ambush protected".
  • Terrorists going up against a CATAMARAN vehicle with RPGs and the like is a more risky proposition for them because the defenders have got 2 or 4 pairs of eyes watching for ambushes with their fingers on triggers to fight the attackers off.
Conclusion

The CATAMARAN vehicle is a better vehicle than MRAPs for any conflict where MRAPs are now the vehicle of choice.

More details of the CATAMARAN Vehicle here.


Last edited by Peter_Dow on Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:36 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
blackdog
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 11, 2010
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:57 am
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

I think the real question here is: will the CATAMARAN be able to carry Battle Boxes or M113 Gavins to the fight?!
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:10 am
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

- blackdog
I think the real question here is: will the CATAMARAN be able to carry Battle Boxes or M113 Gavins to the fight?!


Actually I think the real question here is - has he been skipping his medication?

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

The concept and presentation do look eerily familiar.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

- JimWeb
Actually I think the real question here is - has he been skipping his medication?


I think he has been taking to much of something ....

I made an check at the text at the for freedom forum also, and I would like to suggest some small corrections for the catamaran MRAP?
- first of all, the load at the steering axle is max 40% (this figure is lower for steering and driven axle's) of the GVW because the steering axle is not as strong as the non-steering one's
So the load distrubution have to be reconsidered
- About the steering. Because you want to connect the vehicle's with bars, how do want to connect the steering mechanisme of the 2 vehicle's
- Because all connection bars are intended to fix one vehicle rigid to the other vehicle, there will be serious trouble with overall road performance. Especialy at poor quality roads, which will give an lot of material stress at the joints;
- Problem may be the overall width of the vehicle in dagerous locations. For each side of the catamaran will be approx 2.5m, so 5m total for the 2 vehicle's add the connection bars of 2m each, an estimated total of 6.5m overall width

Final question: how those design perform in mountainous terrain ?
With it's narrow, bad quality roads and same quality bridge's ?


Michel Mr. Green

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Tanklord
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

- blackdog
I think the real question here is: will the CATAMARAN be able to carry Battle Boxes or M113 Gavins to the fight?!


Ah Hell No! Please Blackdog, you must never use the G word when talking of the M113. You have been warned!


Just kidding, but that subject is verboten here!

_________________
The only thing to do when a son-of-a-bitch looks
cross-eyed at you is to beat the hell out of him right
then and there
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
Peter_Dow
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 01, 2010
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

- Michel_Krauss
I made an check at the text at the for freedom forum also, and I would like to suggest some small corrections for the catamaran MRAP?
- first of all, the load at the steering axle is max 40% (this figure is lower for steering and driven axle's) of the GVW because the steering axle is not as strong as the non-steering one's
So the load distrubution have to be reconsidered

OK Michel you asked a number of questions and made a number of points and I hope to discuss them all in due course but for right now I'd like to post the text and image you are referring to so that others can post their opinions about it here as well.

What I'd like to suggest Michel is that because vehicles are very often designed to have more weight on the rear axle, the designers of such "rear-axle-heavy" vehicles been able to use a lighter front axle, lighter front suspension, lighter front wheels as well. They could have made the front equally strong but since it didn't have to be, they didn't so as to save weight. Fair enough.

However, if like here, I am designing a new vehicle from scratch and I have good reasons to want equal weights on each axle (such as wanting to spread the weight around all the axles evenly to help to cope with poor quality roads which might collapse under the weight) then I can specify an equally as strong front, rear and trailer axle.



The image shows some vital statistics for my proposed CATAMARAN vehicle, only one Y-side is pictured.

The front powered and driven vehicle seats a maximum of 10, 5 in either Y-side.

Each side seats 5 =
  • 1 - one driver or reserve driver or front passenger +
  • 2 - one front gunner and one rear gunner +
  • 2 - two passengers
The trailer seats a maximum of 6, 3 in either Y-side

Each side seats 3 =
  • 2 - two passengers +
  • 1 - one tail gunner
So the vehicle with trailer attached seats a maximum of 16, 8 in either Y-side.

Each side seats 8 =
  • 1 - one driver or reserve driver or front passenger +
  • 3 - one front gunner, one rear gunner and one tail gunner +
  • 4 - four passengers.
The driver can be either on the left or on the right Y-side and then the reserve driver or front passenger would be on the right or left Y-side, respectively.

Weight distribution

The image also shows the ideal weight distribution in relation to the axles.

Each square represents the same weight and length which is
  • one eighth of the weight and length of the combined vehicle with trailer,
  • one fifth of the weight and length of the front powered and driven vehicle and
  • one third of the weight and length of the trailer.
Designing the vehicle to have this weight distribution helps to keep the vehicle well balanced in terms of equal weights over each axle which allows for the same suspension and tyres to be used through-out and maintains this balance with or without the trailer attached.
Back to top
View user's profile
Peter_Dow
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 01, 2010
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

- Michel_Krauss
- About the steering. Because you want to connect the vehicle's with bars, how do want to connect the steering mechanisme of the 2 vehicle's


"Mechanically" is what I have specified so far.

I have also specified "power steering" (after all if the trailer is attached, there are 8 wheels to steer!)

I have also specified that for the two rotational gears (clockwise and anti-clockwise) the steering is disengaged from the wheels, and the wheels are turned by the power steering to the appropriate positions for rotation.

I have not specified exactly how the mechanical connection between the steering of both sides is arranged, whether by a rod or a cables or whatever.

Essentially the two steering wheels would be locked together. So if you turn one steering in one driver's cabin, it turns the steering wheel in the other driver's cabin. If the two people in the driving seats disagree about who is driving it could be fun! Mr. Green


- Michel_Krauss
- Because all connection bars are intended to fix one vehicle rigid to the other vehicle, there will be serious trouble with overall road performance. Especialy at poor quality roads, which will give an lot of material stress at the joints;


So the connecting bars and the components which attach them to the Y-sides will need to be strong enough to cope.

- Michel_Krauss
- - Problem may be the overall width of the vehicle in dagerous locations. For each side of the catamaran will be approx 2.5m, so 5m total for the 2 vehicle's add the connection bars of 2m each, an estimated total of 6.5m overall width

No each side, as an example I have said the individual Y-sides would be 4 feet = 1 metre 22 cm wide.

I have given 3 example total widths
9 feet = 2 metres 74 cm (as wide as an MRAP)
12 feet = 3 metres 66 cm (as wide as a tank)
16 feet = 4 metres 88 cm (wide!)

So you are way out with your figures Michel.

- Michel_Krauss
- Final question: how those design perform in mountainous terrain ?
With it's narrow, bad quality roads and same quality bridge's ?

The CATAMARAN vehicle (at least the wheeled version I am considering now) is designed as an MRAP replacement, not as a tank replacement, so it performs better than an MRAP on slopes because of its lateral stability in wider configurations, not better than a tank or a tracked vehicle.

In the CATAMARAN vehicle's narrow oonfiguration, it can squeeze between any gap that a 9 feet wide MRAP can.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

Doug

I agree. My first impression.

Amazing that the 'G' word was evoked, I think you & I are on the same page.....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

Hi,

s0.ilike.com/play#Styx...b93c053112

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

- C_Sherman


You're a bad man, Chuck. Laughing

I'd print this out and run it by the folks at the local "Force Protection" manufacturing facility, but I'm afraid it would sacrifice any chances of a return visit.

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:45 am
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

Interesting,

Looking at the design, it kinda reminds me of this thing,

Engineer vehicle with Ground Penetrating Radar

Don't ask me the official name.

A very narrow crew compartment with "V" hull providing minimum exposure to blast. Lash two of these side by side, remove the inside set of wheels, and now you have facsimile to your Catamaran vehicle.

With your idea a mine blast coming from below would have a hard time penetrating the hull, being that the inside there is no area for the blast to concentrate on. The angled outside would also deflect most away at the proposed angle. The major problem I see is with side attack IED's, like an EFP, And those my friends, are real killers, having witnessed their nasty capabilities. As with MRAPS and all their kin (In fact ALL Armored vehicles), you cannot account for all angles of attack short of designing a vehicle that looks like TWO CONES MATED VERTICALLY, and the new armor packets do not take kindly to compound curves. But I do applaud your effort in trying to find a solution. Ours in 2006-07 was try not to get hit in the first place, utilizing different countermeasures, speeds, configurations, and other tactics that I won't mention, but that's like whistling in the dark Neutral .

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:56 am
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

- Tanklord
- blackdog
I think the real question here is: will the CATAMARAN be able to carry Battle Boxes or M113 Gavins to the fight?!


Ah Hell No! Please Blackdog, you must never use the G word when talking of the M113. You have been warned!


Just kidding, but that subject is verboten here!


Not only is it verboten here (unless you enjoy being the but of continuing abuse) it is also not considered appropriate in any civilized society. Farting loudly when you have a chance to ask the President a question on Live National Television or when being introduced to Queen Elizabeth would be considered a minor gaf compared to combining M113 and the name of an Airborne general in the same phrase

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Peter_Dow
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 01, 2010
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:45 am
Post subject: Telescopic rear axle armoured vehicle - easy!

OK well I have to admit there are a few problems with my CATAMARAN vehicle design.

  • Heavier armour for the same volume protected
  • The inner sides required to be armoured and connected together and that all adds weight. Precisely how much more weight is difficult to predict but a significant thickness of additional armour required certainly
Therefore I am now turning to a different and easier idea to solve the roll-over problem for MRAP armoured vehicles - telescopic rear axles.

Telescopic Rear Axles. Extended - Wide.


Telescopic Rear Axles. Collapsed - Narrow.


Hydraulic cylinders components are available to be adapted for this purpose.

The axles would need to be braced vertically to stop them bending under the weight of the vehicle.

Certain design concepts I have previously described for the CATAMARAN vehicle which I do want to retain for the telescopic rear axle design, such as

  • Trailer wheel steering
  • Armoured passenger trailer
  • Rotation on the spot
  • Roof mounted remote-controlled machine guns
  • 5 : 3 ratio, 5 (vehicle) : 3 (trailer), weight and length distribution
Therefore the telescopic rear axle design although it is perhaps a less radical and innovative mono-hull design than the CATAMARAN Vehicle design, nevertheless it has many excellent features which greatly enhance the performance over the standard MRAP.

So I await with interest to see if anyone can identify flaws with my second major design iteration.
Back to top
View user's profile
Peter_Dow
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 01, 2010
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

Armoured Personnel Carrier Designed by Peter Dow.

Features
  • Front vehicle seats a maximum of 11 people
  • Armoured passenger trailer seats a maximum of 7 people
  • Vehicle with trailer seats a maximum of 18 people
  • Roof mounted remote-controlled machine guns
  • Trailer wheel steering
  • Telescopic Rear Axle & Wheels
  • Rotation on the spot
  • Even axle weight distribution
  • 5 : 3 weight & length ratio, 5 (vehicle) : 3 (trailer)


More details ...
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum