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Pzkpfw-e · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jul 21, 2010 Posts: 1202

www.scubaboard.com/for...beach.html
SS John D Morgan, sunk after a collision off Cape Henry, Virginia, USA.
Looks like a Valentine to me?

the_shadock

Hello Adam,

it's hard to tell from the video, the images are not clear enough. But yes, it seems to be a Valentine tank. If so, there is a chance that it is a Canadian-produced tank.

Pierre-Olivier

tankmodeler

Nope, that is , for sure, a Valentine. The turret and the turret hatches are very unique. What it was doing off Virginia would be interesting to know. I would have thought Canadian Valentines would all have been shipped directly out of Montreal into Halifax based convoys.

Paul

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- tankmodeler

Nope, that is , for sure, a Valentine. The turret and the turret hatches are very unique. What it was doing off Virginia would be interesting to know. I would have thought Canadian Valentines would all have been shipped directly out of Montreal into Halifax based convoys.

Paul

Hi,

I think I read somewhere else in that thread, the tanks were shipped to the US to be loaded onto ships. I can see that as a reasonable thing, even if there were other convoys out of Montreal. We were more-or-less on the same team until at least 1945! Perhaps there was higher priority cargo that necessitated bumping the tanks south for transportation.

C

bsmart

I knew that ship name sounded familiar according to Wikipedia she was Built in Baltimore at the Fairfield yard (big Liberty ship yard, My Grandfather worked there) and sank on her maiden voyage loaded with Lend-Lease supplies including Valentines and P-39 fighters

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ohn_Morgan

So it sounds like it may have been a combination of lots of shipping capacity out of teh Chesapeake because of the Liberty ship 'factory' (There was another Liberty yard in North Carolina so those first loads were also probably out of the Chesapeake/Hampton Roads area) and the consolidation of Lend lease shiploads heading to Russia (of the 1420 Valentines built in Canada all but 30 were delivered to Russia. Chamberlain and Ellis say the other 30 were 'retained for training' but I wonder how many are on the Morgan and if they were counted as delivered or are those the other 30? Confused

tankmodeler

- bsmart

and the consolidation of Lend lease shiploads heading to Russia (of the 1420 Valentines built in Canada all but 30 were delivered to Russia. Chamberlain and Ellis say the other 30 were 'retained for training' but I wonder how many are on the Morgan and if they were counted as delivered or are those the other 30?

Yeah, once you mentioned the lend lease, I figured that was what it was. Consolidate the lend lease stuff out of one port, put together a convoy straight for Murmansk and you reduce the toal transhipment effort and waiting time in various ports looking to make up a convoy to Murmansk.

As for the "30", they were, indeed, retained in Canada. One of them remains at Borden in reasonable shape after 55+ years in the open. Any sunk out of the 1390 shipped were counted as shipped and not retained.

Paul

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