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TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

I have returned to working on Preserved Tanks in Canada:

Preserved Tanks in Canada

- the current tally is 6 location and 37 tanks, so I'll be working to improve that. I'm starting with Oshawa.

- BruceClark

Nice work Trevor!
And nice links to photos. Happened to be on Base last weekend and noticed that a number of things had changed in the 4 months since I was there last.

That Ram 1 has been moved from Worthington Park- hopefully inside but the museum was closed so unable to confirm. The M48/60 that was by the tennis courts has also been relocated to the corner of Dieppe and Alamein.

Thanks Bruce - entries updated:

Location ID 8000: Canadian Forces Base, Borden

recceboy · Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

Trevor

The Leopard C-2 photo is a German Leo 1A4 that if my memory suites me was sent to Canada only for testing. I found some photos of the DDR T-72 when it arrived and the T-34/85 as well, if you would like a copy send me a pm.

Cheers

Anthony

BruceClark · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 109

Trevor,
I'm afraid that is another Mr. Clark- he is a very talented photographer who got some great shots when the base was "in transition". (To avoid paying taxes, the base commander had a number of the old WWII barracks and hangars knocked down with the result that a number of vehicles that had finally moved under cover within the last few years were now outside again. The cutaway ex DDR T55 probably suffered most...

The new building opened the next year and things were once again uner cover.)
Bruce

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

Bruce, thanks for your comments and emails, I'll respond in detail soon. Meanwhile, if these are your photos, can I use them?: www.pbase.com/mrclark/...orden_2004

Lesley, do you know if there is any way of identifying which factory produced which tanks, e.g. by serial number?

Alf, I've used the Borden photos from your Photobucket/Preserved AFVs in Canada account, I hope that's ok - here they are:

Alf Adams pictures of CFB Borden

Don't forget that at any time you can check what pictures of yours I have used and where, this is your link:

Alf Adams On PreservedTanks.com

Could I also add pictures from your Preserved AFVs in Canada site (assuming they are yours)? If so, do you have dates for the Borden ones?

L.Delsing · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 960

About the factory in (then) Czechoslovakia. It seems that another factory build or modified T-54 and 55 tanks. This was named VOP25 (vojensky opravarensky podnik) at Dukelska 105 in Novy Jicin (700 x T-54M, ? x T-55AM1 and 450? x T-55AM2

BruceClark · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 109

Nice work Trevor!
And nice links to photos. Happened to be on Base last weekend and noticed that a number of things had changed in the 4 months since I was there last.

That Ram 1 has been moved from Worthington Park- hopefully inside but the museum was closed so unable to confirm. The M48/60 that was by the tennis courts has also been relocated to the corner of Dieppe and Alamein. And a number of smaller artillery pieces have also been moved around.
There seems little rhyme nor reason for moves and it keeps you on your toes every time on base.

Bruce

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

To give more background/past photos for the vehicles I have added two new sets:

CFB Borden, photos from Borden.Forces.Gc.Ca

CFB Borden, photos by Balcer/Wikimedia

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

I have written up the post and museum, and added my photos and a bunch of useful links. I've also written briefly about Worthington - he certainly had a colourful career!

Location ID 8000: CFB Borden

I have also added the RCEME M74 - it was featured in Skaarup's Ironsides book which is available online (and I've bought since):

Unique ID 2434: M74, RCEME Borden

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

Added a solitary Grizzly:

Unique ID 2433: M4A1 Grizzly, Cambrai Road, Borden

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

- L.Delsing

About the T-55 it is ZTS Martin built and the serial should be MHYA30ZMS. The A is indicating it is a T-55A, the Z that it is built in december and the MS is indicating it was built in the year 1980

Lesley, thanks for that - it led me to researching and writing up ZTS Martin:

Location ID 20900: ZTS Martin, Slovakia

It forms the first location in the Borden T-55's location history and map, and adds to my ever-growing collection of tank factories, most of which are now (sadly?) defunct:

Tank Factories

Thanks, too, for sending me your document on Soviet tank serial numbers. However, in it you give the manufacturer of the T-55 as ZTS Martin in Dubnica nad Váhom, and I think this is a misunderstanding. ZTS was/is a very large conglomerate and from my research the tanks were actually built by ZTS Martin, i.e. in the town of Martin. Some other vehicles were built by ZTS Dubnica nad Váhom, i.e. in the town of Dubnica nad Váhom, most notably the well-known DANA self-propelled gun. Also, some sources indicate ZTS Dubnica nad Váhom (now ZTS Special) supplied turrets for the T-72s built by ZTS Martin, and also possibly guns for the T-55s. See the links on the ZTS Martin page above, plus: translate.google.com/t...2Fhistoria

I'm also convinced of this because Martin is dominated by a huge industrial complex that has all the characteristics of a tank factory (with railway sidings, test track, etc.) whereas Dubnica nad Váhom only has a medium scale industrial area that I take to be the ZTS complex. To see them in Google maps, ZTS Martin is shown on its page above, and I estimate ZTS Dubnica nad Váhom to be at lat./long: 48.96703, 18.19044.

Nonetheless, I may need to write up ZTS Dubnica nad Váhom as its own factory location anyway, if I find any surviving Czech T-55AM2s as I understand it was the factory that modernised T-55s to T-55AM2 standard.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

- L.Delsing

Nothing wrong with the number, on the welded plate the east germans translated the cyrillic letters in the German equivalent.

If you can tell me what it is in cyrillic, I'll include that too.

- L.Delsing

About the type, keep it T-72. After some new insights given to me by Dirk C. I have to conclude it is ''just'' a T-72. Nevertheless interesting with the 8 KMT mounts instead of the 4 normally found on the M or M1.

Ok, I'll revert to T-72.

- L.Delsing

About the T-55 it is ZTS Martin built and the serial should be MHYA30ZMS. The A is indicating it is a T-55A, the Z that it is built in december and the MS is indicating it was built in the year 1980

Ok, I'll update.

Jim, thanks, I note what you say about the T-72G, but for consistency I'm using Soviet designations rather than NATO ones.

JimWeb · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

British army recognition handbooks listed these as

T-72G ~ T-72A in service with the NVA.
T-72GM ~ T-72M in service with the NVA.
T-72GM [Variant 1] ~ Modified for the mine clearing role.
T-72GM1 ~ T-72GM fitted with MBSGD.
T-72GM1 [Variant 1] ~ T-72G upgraded to T-72M standard.

L.Delsing · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 960

Hi Trevor,
Nothing wrong with the number, on the welded plate the east germans translated the cyrillic letters in the German equivalent.

About the type, keep it T-72. After some new insights given to me by Dirk C. I have to conclude it is ''just'' a T-72. Nevertheless interesting with the 8 KMT mounts instead of the 4 normally found on the M or M1.

About the T-55 it is ZTS Martin built and the serial should be MHYA30ZMS. The A is indicating it is a T-55A, the Z that it is built in december and the MS is indicating it was built in the year 1980

Regards
Lesley

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

Just added - T-55 on entrance road:

Unique ID 2432: T-55, Dieppe Road, Borden

Guys - can I presume this also came from East Germany in mid 90s?

As it happens the Bovington T-55 trainer arrived in 1994, so perhaps it was part of the same deal (click on the T-55 Trainer's Former GDR link to get to it).

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Canada

Thanks guys, I have updated it with what you've given me (including adding a new location on the map for GDR). I've gone with T-72A as the model as that is consistent with Lesley's other IDs:

Unique ID 2431: T-72, Borden

Lesley - do you think I might have the serial number wrong? I've added a photo of the original stamped serial in case that helps - but I can't decipher it as well as the stamped plate.

Meanwhile, Anthony, Bruce, can I presume that the cutaway T-55 came at the same time, i.e. circa 1995?

Unique ID 2419: T-55 Trainer, Borden

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