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Here is the proposed mission "shopping list". This was originally conceived as for one or two fliers, but I've expanded it. It presents four options based on how much time one want to invest in the flight...from about 15-20 minutes to an hour, depending on aircraft chosen. Some missions obviously require involvement of rotory wing, some could be all fixed wing. Also, aircraft types are up to the mission commander, but I made some logical and commonly available suggestions.

This is a general template to give a basis for a mission(s) and can be modified in any number of ways.

Stoopy, this is the version I'd have you include in your "package".

I ship out for Europe on Monday for about 10 days, so I won't be available until the 30th or so after that. this will give you something to chew on....

Stoopy has the maps that make this make a lot more sense....note that this area gets mountainous to the west and careful navigation through the passes is recommended. Also, this gets a lot more fun with the SEA mesh and some weather...and/or at night. I had VFR rules in mind, but combat ops require some "flexibility" on observing that.

Stoopy, you double checked my DMS coordinates, yes? We won't use the MGRS (military grid reference system) for this as that has a steep learning curve for beginners and you'd need megabytes of maps anyway.
___________________________________________________________

SECRET

COMSEC – OPERATIONS
HQ – XXIV Corps; 101st Airborne Div.

To: G3, Special Operations – Aviation. MACV-SOG, CCN – Phu Bai. Code Name “Stoopy�
Subject: Combined Operation – “Black Light�

1. You are designated by this authority as Mission Commander. The Mission Cmdr. will assign and accompany sufficient forces in four stages to be sequenced at his discretion.
2. Such assets as the mission commander may deem appropriate shall be placed at his disposal, not to exceed Two (2) UH-1D A/C C&C equipped, Two (2) AD-4 Skyraiders fixed wing A/C. Two CH-47 Chinooks will be available if the Mission Cmdr. determines that operational needs require the teams to go heavy. Two (2) OH-6A’s will be available for scout and visual reconnaissance duties where stealth is determined to be essential. Refueling capability will be available for f/w A/C at Departure from Da Nang and at Phu Bai. Refueling capability will be available for r/w A/C at Da Nang. Improvised hot refueling only is available at Phu Bai, Camp Eagle and FSB Birminham for this mission.
3. Mission commander will lead all elements himself, and inform no one of the nature of his mission apart from assigned elements. Refer to Joint Operations Graphic previously issued for precise feature descriptions.

Mission objectives:

A. You will make a familiarization flight of the extremes of the AO by piloting from the front-seat of a two-place AD-4 Skyraider from DaNang to Phu Bai with full combat load. You will refuel at Phu Bai and proceed to provide such contingency support as may be required by our forces assembling at Khe Sanh Combat Base (DMS for Khe Sanh is N16:38:10 , E107:43:50). Note that you will be within 10km.of the Laotian border, under no circumstances penetrate Laotian airspace. Load outs will be determined by Operations at Da Nang. Loiter by orbiting for 10 minutes. If you expend your ordnance at Khe Sanh (and I know you will!), a re-fueling stop at Phu Bai should not be necessary and you will proceed directly to Da Nang and report/debrief. Air Cavalry Scout units are operating there dispatched from Phu Bai and you may be called upon to lend support if the enemy is detected in force.

B. Departing from Phu Bai, two (2) individuals will be ferried via UH-1D to FSB Birmingham under cover of an ash-and-trash mission (E16:21:45 , N107:32:30, land North of the Song Huu River and QL9 National Highway). First pax will be picked up at CCN compound at Phu Bai Airfield Western extreme (camp north of runway west end), second pax at Camp Eagle Acid Pad of ‘L’ Co. Rangers (LRRP) (E16:24:30 , N107:37:30) (alternate option if you have Camp Eagle scenery is to make pickup at “Kingsmen� hangar). Identities are on need-to-know basis. You will be informed regarding departure and pick-up times. After pax disembark at FSB Birmingham, you will collect a pouch and materials designated “refuse� and RTB Phu Bai. You will be relieved of the pouch by a representative of this command who will identify himself as “Exos�.

C. You will fly from Phu Bai to Scabbard Pad at Camp Eagle (E16:24:35 , N107:37:25) where ‘L’ Co. Ranger Team Denver will be assembled for pickup. Tm Denver is to be inserted at mouth of Ruong Ruong valley (N16:08:00, E107:38:30), after first making a diversionary landing on the floor of the valley bowl. RTB Phu Bai after making the insertion.

D. Departing from Phu Bai prior to 0100Hrs, you will make a ladder extraction (do not land) of a radio relay/wiretap team during the hours of darkness at the village of A Sap after a diversionary approach at the village of A Shau. Aerial Rocket Artillery support will not be available for this operation. If resistance is encountered you will abort the mission. Intelligence reports increased heavy AAA in the southern part of the valley. It is advisable that you arrange for support from Skyraiders operating from Da Nang that should loiter no closer than 5km. from the pickup point. Following the extraction bring the team and their wiretap yield to Phu Bai main terminal where M.I. will collect the product.



f/w = fixed wing
A/C = aircraft
AO = Area of Operations
Hot refueling = “engine on� refueling operation (for use where no simulated refuel exists…use FS9 “set fuel and payload� option to take on fuel during the mission).

Was thinking of giving the Army OH6 the same flight characteristics as the Civy version. Maybe just me but the civy version seems to be a bit more responsive. Any input? or just do it. Also, how bout that "C" model gunship?

I also started making scenery for Dong Tam in III corp about a year ago but never got any further than grading and puting in the roads/runway But it could be available as is for those looking to do long X-country or to have another time period U.S. base.

can we upload all of thhose to our download section or are we going to have to get them from someplace else?..it sure would be alot easier to organize if we could have evrything here....

- Hangman

you two have got me so confused if you're waiting on input from me it's gonna be a while..lol...

Nah...we're just talking about aircraft that can, and did, function together...and will make for a good group activity. Aircraft I have in mind are:
Dean Baunton's UH-1 U.S. Army Vietnam
Fr8ycat's OH-6A
Blues Brothers CH-47
The GzR's Skyraider
The Forward air controller of your choice (O-1 or 0-2)
Maybe a transport.

Fast movers are too high and too fast for group stuff...and the missions are either covert or low profile, so not a lot of flash is wanted.

Once the missions (there are four that can be used separately or together in some sequence...and it's your choice as "engineer") are selected, certaion aircraft will suggest themselves.

We can pony up several rotory wing fliers from JG300 so ya'll can fly the fixed wings if that's your thing. Something for everybody, that's my motto!

you two have got me so confused if you're waiting on input from me it's gonna be a while..lol...

Sounds good - some input from Hangy here would be needed too. As I understood it, it would be something akin to the Sunday flight methodology wherein all fly the same type for one whole flight (avoids messy problems like Cessna's showing up for some who join and don't have the plane the "other" guy is in). Kind of a formation flight thing.

Now, a coordinated thing from different bases in different types all coordinating to arrive at one destinaion at the same time......heck yeah, count me in for that too, personally!

...and just to complicate this a bit...I've just made contact with an Al Simms, another vet who has done the base at Chu Lai (easy flyin' distance from Da Nang and Phu Bai in fixed wing) for which I have aeronautical maps. Haven't downloaded and looked at yet, but I have a suspicion it will be rather nice, judging by this:
members.aol.com/asimms...ndex2.html

Put all this together, and we'd have all of "I" Corps covered...maybe a smidgen of "II" Corps as well. He's done some nice macros, too. I'll try to download and look at tomorrow, after my visit to the dentist.

- JG300-Stoopy

Check your email....and stop going to 'Urp so much, because everytime you do it seems I have to go to Texas again.....

Got it...I'm gonna rescale it to make larger elements practical given the participatory nature of this assignment. Wanna' have a force of variable size and type...it was originally designed for single or double play. Mix will include UH-1's, and/or CH-47's and, of course, a certain OH-6A... and Skyraiders. Fast movers are not really compatible with joint ops of this type, but someone might want to fly a team up from Da Nang or Chu Lai or something in a C-130 or C-123. Someone could work a FAC into the mix.
Lets keep the fixed wing low and slow. Heck, B-52's only landed at Da Nang in dire emergencies and left as soon as possible...B-52's never operated from bases in Vietnam.
I'll get something back to you in a day or so....

Oh, sorry about your trips...I'll be muddling along on Italian food after a few days in Amsterdam (and what CAN'T you buy there?! )

Check your email....and stop going to 'Urp so much, because everytime you do it seems I have to go to Texas again.....

- JG300-Stoopy

Yup! Got em (kept 'em from the beginning a long time ago!) and can make a heck of a package out of it....finally now that the flight plan hurdle is over!

Hope this sounds good to Hangy as per the original idear!!

Will make it and submit it and go from there......surely it could be one of the considerations I hope (and really is a great flight for the A1D as you had originally suggested, and the UH-1 for others if there are souls up to the task....I know I am!).

Shoot me back the "missions" page...I want to look it over first....maybe revise a bit for something this formal....PM or email. I need it soon, as I leave for 'Urp Monday.

BTW, one nice thing is that, realistically, folks can depart from different bases and rendevouz at the scene of the "action". This could be very cool.

Yup! Got em (kept 'em from the beginning a long time ago!) and can make a heck of a package out of it....finally now that the flight plan hurdle is over!

Hope this sounds good to Hangy as per the original idear!!

Will make it and submit it and go from there......surely it could be one of the considerations I hope (and really is a great flight for the A1D as you had originally suggested, and the UH-1 for others if there are souls up to the task....I know I am!).

- JG300-Stoopy

Check. That'll work, and yep, I have some other maps you provided that are green and stuff, plus the reddish one.

Righty-O, will see what can be done.

The green ones with the radials are gen-u-ine aeronautical maps, like this (in pretty good res, enlarge it when it displays):

www.vhpamuseum.org/pla...QTtoCL.jpg

1:50,000 tacticals are white and look like this small section:

www.vhpamuseum.org/pla...marea2.jpg

You can get multiple detailed views of the A Shau from this page:

www.lcompanyranger.com...tolist.htm

...and here is the A Shau in close-up from a brightened 1:250,000 JOG: (Dark line at lower left is Laotian border)

Check. That'll work, and yep, I have some other maps you provided that are green and stuff, plus the reddish one.

Righty-O, will see what can be done.

- JG300-Stoopy

Now that I[m home I took a quick look at your briefing and have all the lat/long coordinates for most places, but one mission toward A Shau Valley refers to the village of A Sap.....any coordinates for that?

I think its visible on the map. Do have any but the JOG map (lots of red in the high contour area)?
It's tough to share the maps at anything like a good resolution because they are large and detailed. In any case, A Sap is at the South end of the valley just next to the river that runs up the middle of it...above and slightly to the left of the white circle "548" for the "highway" there.