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C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Mark! Hi Folks!

- MarkHolloway

Roy, Did armor units ever have the M-49C?

Hey Chuck! Any chance you have some idea when the M49s where replaced by the M54 with a pod system?

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Hi,

I can't give anything firm, but I know we had both 49Cs and the 5-ton trucks with the pods, at the same time in the early 80s. As I recall, the 49Cs were used for MoGas (for our Jeeps and generators) and the 5-tons were had diesel (still called DF2 back then) in them. I want to say the 49Cs went away after 1987, around the time our M151s went away. Keep in mind that this was a Reserve tank outfit, so we were behind the rest of the Army...we were still shooting gunnery in M60 'turtles' until the M1IPs were issued in about 1990.

I recall that the MTOE actually called the 5-tons as cargo trucks, and the pod system was another bit of equipment with a separate LIN. I theory the pods were de-mountable, allowing the the truck to be used for something else. In practice, that rarely happened.

Long time ago...and now I'm going back into the game again. Brett Favre got nothin' on me!

Chuck

binder001 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 363

- Doug_Kibbey

Well, drop tanks on aircraft are not flimsy 55 gal. drums positioned immediately over the hot exhausts of a vehicle vibrating/bouncing over roads/uneven ground out of view to the crew and subject to anybody with an antique firearm taking potshot at them. That's rather my point. Gas is more safely transported in sturdy, purpose-built trucks that can follow in the trains behind the tanks in advance. It worked well enough in every war from WWII to Desert Storm...assuming your side had the fuel and the means to move it.

Well, the drums are at least as sturdy as the average aircraft drop tank that I have seen. The drums were offset to the rear. IN THEORY - if they had been penetrated the leaking fuel should drain to the ground behind the vehicle. There was a low sheet metal protector that was folded up in front of the drums. When I first saw the photos I assumed it was for bullet/shrapnel protection, but then I learned about the "flamethrower" qualities of the M48/48A1 exhausts and it became clear that it was more of a flame damper. In the late 1950s the Army wasn't getting the GOER or HEMTT type all-terrain fuel trucks. This was obviously an experdient to serve until the "proper" fix - a better tank engine.

When I was first researching M48s for the project that Jim Mesko finished as "M48 In Action" I received many photos from National Guard units that had used the M48s fairly late. They didn't often show the fuel rack fitted. This seems to have been used primarily in Europe and foreign slaes. There were M48A1s in the 1958(?) Lebanon intervention that had the fuel racks fitted. I think either Jordan or Pakistan had them on their M48s.

The Centurion used a large trailer for extra fuel. I can't say that I'd be much happier with a trailer dragging along versus the drums. Either system should have come with a sign "Shoot Here First".

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Mark! Hi Folks!

- MarkHolloway

Roy, Did armor units ever have the M-49C?

M49C? The reference I have states the "C" was build to carry aviation fuel.

That is part of my problem. I have not see a TOE listing for anything in support/transport units except cargo trucks. In that photo, that looks like a Transportion unit. Notice the tractor trailier rigs up the colume.

Hey Chuck! Any chance you have some idea when the M49s where replaced by the M54 with a pod system?

A follow up to Dontos post about Infantry supporting armored units.
After the first FTX with the 4th Bn (Lt)(Abn) 68th Armor as part of the 82nd Abn Div, the word came around that Division G4 was shocked. The battalion used more gasoline and diesel fuel in ten days than the entire division had used during the pass year prior to our arrival from Ft Riley.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Doug_Kibbey

I guess it's not always as easy as someone keying a set and saying "Spool up a couple a' them CH-47's and fly us some fuel blivets out here to YD 705101." Smile

Dontos

In my 'earlier days',(1985-86) I remember being attached to Infantry units that were still running in M113A2's. (No Bradleys,...yet).

My Platoon was heading into a refuel point the the Inf Company had set up. I pulled up next to a 5 ton with a 500gal fuel pod and the (Inf) 1SG indicated that we should all fill up, before the remainder of 'his' vehicles got there.

I asked him where the other 3 trucks were for the balance of my Platoon (ie 4 tanks for 4 refuel trucks...) We were running the 'slick' M-1s which had a fuel capacity of 505.3 gal each.

The 1SG sort of 'snorted' when he informed me the single 500 gal pod was for the entire Company 'Team'....!! ( I was a mere PFC, so he didn't take to me too well,....?!)

I called my Plt Sgt on the radio and told him the situation, and that the (former 'Light' Inf) 1SG was clueless to our fuel requirements....!?

A 'deal' was worked out, we drained his fuel pod, and the 'Grunts' had to request an emergency fuel resupply, early the next morning.

('Light' Inf guys tend to be clueless to Mech Inf / Tank Team operations,.....IMHO)

Just a blast form my (not so) distant past...

Regards
Don

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- MarkHolloway

Roy, Did armor units ever have the M-49C?

PHOTO FROM: www.olive-drab.com/

Yes. I still have a license for it, from my early days as a tanker...but I won't say how many years ago that was!

Chuck

MarkHolloway

Roy, Did armor units ever have the M-49C?

PHOTO FROM: www.olive-drab.com/

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

..........Gas is more safely transported in sturdy, purpose-built trucks that can follow in the trains behind the tanks in advance. It worked well enough in every war from WWII to Desert Storm...assuming your side had the fuel and the means to move it.

I have to agree with that. But here is my problem, at what point did "purpose-built" fuel trucks become stardard TOE issue to tank, armored infantry(Mech Inf) and Armored Field Artillery (SP) units?

AFAIK, the first "purpose-built" fuel truck was the M559 (Goer) tankers which where only issued to tank bns in Europe around 1977 or so and only served for a few years. The next fuel truck was the M978 (Hemmt) tanker while carring JP-8 jet fuel did work very well during DS/DS and OIF.

As I understand it, the 5 gallon can and the 55 gallon drum was the standard up until the M54 5 ton 6x6 cargo truck was issued with a twin aluminum pod and pump/hose reel kit.

The only TOE that I have showing a "purpose-built" tanker are the ones showing the M978 (Hemmt). That is why I feel that these racks could have been a workable idea. Not prefect, but just workable.

My 2 cents, which could be very wrong!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

Doug_Kibbey

- Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

That just seems like an obvious Bad Idea on so many levels....

Does that mean you think drop tanks on a fighter plane is a bad idea?

Sgt, Scouts out!

Well, drop tanks on aircraft are not flimsy 55 gal. drums positioned immediately over the hot exhausts of a vehicle vibrating/bouncing over roads/uneven ground out of view to the crew and subject to anybody with an antique firearm taking potshot at them. That's rather my point.

Gas is more safely transported in sturdy, purpose-built trucks that can follow in the trains behind the tanks in advance. It worked well enough in every war from WWII to Desert Storm...assuming your side had the fuel and the means to move it.

MarkHolloway

When I worked on M60's I remember a wire inside the right rear of the hull that dead-ended. I looked it up on a schematic and it said "Fuel Jettison".

binder001 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 363

Thanks Don. That was an interesting approach to a problem. I remember a series of photos from RIA that showed these racks under test. The tank would make a hard slew to one side and drop two barrels, then a hard slew to the other side to drop the final two, then proceed on its mission. The first few minutes of Elvis Presley's "GI Blues" shows a 3rd Armored Division M48A1 on maneuvers with the fuel rack fitted.

Pzkpfw-e · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jul 21, 2010 Posts: 1202

Arguably better than the fixed, external tanks on many Russian AFVs or carting lose barrels on the rear decking!

Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

That just seems like an obvious Bad Idea on so many levels....

Does that mean you think drop tanks on a fighter plane is a bad idea?

The way I see it, that was a way to adopte an fighter phane's drop tanks to an armored vehicle.

A tank would used the fuel in the rack while moving up to the line of departure. The racks would be dropped in a secure location where they could be recovered.

Keep the following info in mind:

M46 cruising range approx 80 miles
M47 same
M48 cruising range approx 70 miles with jettion fuel tanks, approx 135 miles
M48A2 and A2C cruising range approx 160 with jettion tanks, approx 250 miles
M48A3 approx 300 miles. The jettion system was no longer needed.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!

Roy_A_Lingle

Super! Thank You Dontos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tanker2010

You wouldn't have any shots of the 2 barrel rack that was fitted to M24s, would you? Thanks.

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