±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 531
Total: 531
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Downloads
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: CPGlang
09: Statistics
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Downloads
43: Home
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Member Screenshots
62: Community Forums
63: Downloads
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Downloads
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: CPGlang
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Downloads
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Member Screenshots
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Downloads
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Downloads
102: Your Account
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: CPGlang
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Photo Gallery
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Downloads
122: Your Account
123: CPGlang
124: Home
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Photo Gallery
132: CPGlang
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Downloads
138: Home
139: Home
140: Your Account
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Downloads
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Downloads
172: Photo Gallery
173: Photo Gallery
174: Downloads
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Photo Gallery
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Member Screenshots
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Downloads
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: CPGlang
223: Home
224: Photo Gallery
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Downloads
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Your Account
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Downloads
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Downloads
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Downloads
284: Community Forums
285: Member Screenshots
286: News
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Photo Gallery
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Downloads
304: Photo Gallery
305: Photo Gallery
306: Photo Gallery
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Home
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Downloads
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Photo Gallery
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Your Account
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Downloads
341: Photo Gallery
342: Downloads
343: Photo Gallery
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Photo Gallery
351: Photo Gallery
352: Photo Gallery
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Member Screenshots
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Downloads
378: Photo Gallery
379: CPGlang
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Downloads
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Downloads
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Home
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Member Screenshots
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Downloads
449: Photo Gallery
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Photo Gallery
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Photo Gallery
465: Downloads
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Community Forums
473: Downloads
474: Downloads
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Photo Gallery
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: Photo Gallery
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: News Archive
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Photo Gallery
503: Downloads
504: Your Account
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Community Forums
511: Photo Gallery
512: Downloads
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Home
531: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:21 am
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Now I wonder how the austrian model looks like... Could it be it looks like the swiss model and the gun with the muzzle brake is indeed austrian? Anybody can help?

The swiss guns usually have the swiss cross stamped on the breech.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:37 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Of course, I should have posted that before - from the one the museum has identified (apparently accurately?):





Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:47 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

That's the italian one. Build by Ansaldo in 1942, in Pozzuoli factory. This confirm the identification

Do you have something like that for the gun with the muzzle brake?

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Unfortunately, I dont think so... In fact, I recently had the pictures in the same folder - thinking they were the same gun. I was going through my photos and realized they were indeed two different guns. Unfortunately, it doesnt appear that I took any breech photos of the second one...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

- Massimo_Foti
The one without the muzzle brake looks italian (same for the gun in Borden).
The gun with the muzzle brake matches the swiss model. I wonder how it end up in Aberdeen.

Massimo


Perhaps its an original Austrian Böhler? - assume some were used by the German Army and then probably captured by the US Army and brought to Aberdeen?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Perhaps its an original Austrian Böhler?


That's possible, or even an austrian gun used by the italians. But we are just wild guessing Confused

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:26 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Hi folks

I did some research
At the beginning of WW2 there where some various users of the 47mm Bohler

The main user being Austria / Switserland / Italy / The Netherlands / Russia
The guns that where captured by the German army all recieved an German iventory number - 177(i) / 187(h) / 196(r)
Obvious the Austrian and Swiss guns did not recieve an special inventory number

The German army used them only at the beginning of the war on all fronts, so Eastern Europe, Africa, the Balkans, etc
After becoming obselete most of them moved to training locations or coastal defence, some remained in front line service as infantry gun

So the gun can be picked up at allmost any battle field

I also tried to find some picture's of the gun at Austrian websites, the result was almost none
However I found an picture of an Autrian Bohler in an Autrian army magazine
The complete text is german only, however on page 18 is an nice picture
www.bmlv.gv.at/sk/lask...032008.pdf

The picture is not very good, however the wheels and muzzle brake are recognizable
Rims are of the spoked type, however that where an lot of artillery rims at the start of the war, later they changed to closed disc like type's
There is also an muzzle brake, which appears to be with the big slots

That about the idea that the gun is picked-up on an battle field somewhere in Europe or Africa

And now for an new idea Mr. Green
Is it not possible that the US army bought the gun before the war Confused
I know they bought some German 37mm PaK for testing, so why not an Austrian 47mm Bohler?

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Aha! I appear to have resolved the mystery, thanks to cross-checking against the Ordnance Museum's other 47mm anti-tank guns...

The Museum has this mystery piece identified as a Finnish PstK/39 47mm anti-tank gun.

Here it is on a different display inside the museum - again, I failed to recognize before that this was the same gun.











Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:40 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Good thing to have it identified Mr. Green

However this also raises an new question Confused

How did an Finnish PstK/39 47mm anti-tank gun end up at the Ordnance Museum ???
According the description the Finish army only had 32 guns, so it was not widely used
And to my knowledge Finland only was at war with Russia during WW2

About the description
There is an little error in it about the crew protection, or better the lack of it
The gun could be fitted with an gun shield, however this was hardly ever used in service
That is an error of the gun crew, not an design fault of the gun

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:45 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Michel,
It appears to have been a recent acquisition by the museum - 2004.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:05 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Michel,
It appears to have been a recent acquisition by the museum - 2004.

Neil


Those the Finish army have more of them for sale?
Would an nice little gun to scare the neighbours Mr. Green Mr. Green

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum