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FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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RichardIsner
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Hi, all,

It is great to see that the Elephant got some attention. Sadly, it will likkely end up on a concrete plinth to continue its rusting in the salt air of the Chesapeake. I can remember taking pictures of the beast in 1973! (Ok, I admit it...I am getting old!)

I can remember the Tiger I, the Panzer II and the Marder II, before they went to Germany. I realize many people will hate me for this, but I am glad they went! The Panzer II looks very nice...at least in the last photos I saw. I think the Marder is under cover as well. As for the Tiger I, I would love to see Kevin Wheatcroft restore it to running condition, fill in the side cut-outs with steel, and display it in England. If the Tiger does ever make it back here, I hope it goes into the musuem at Knox! I love APG, but putting any vehicle on concrete there is probably a death sentence. I mean no offense to the folks who work hard and volunteer at APG, or to its staff. They have precious little, and money is just not there. But I would rather see the vehicles restored and shown at selected times and special events, then put back in their stables out of the weather. I can drive to Aberdeen any day in 2 hours, but I would hate to see a wonderful and very significant relic go to what is its graveyard.

Now, if the Army would let some private collectors with deep pockets fix 'em up...that would be another story.

Anyway, hope they put some zimm on the Elephant.

Richard Isner
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Sundrtonge
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

If anyone is interested I have recently gotten my hands on some slides of Aberdeen (23 slides) showing various items of interest to include the Elephant in the dark yellow color. The slides are from the seventies and I have taken them to a photo lab to get put on disk. I think there may be a picture of at least the King tiger there as well maybe the tiger I (cant remember). I will be pickeing them up on thursday so perhaps I can post em over the weekend if interested.

-Dave
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:37 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- RichardIsner


Now, if the Army would let some private collectors with deep pockets fix 'em up...that would be another story.


Yeah Richard, but if they did that they'd only be open to the public one day a year - if we're so lucky Wink

To provide a more reasoned response, I'd rather focus on getting the Ordnance Museum the funds it needs to have a real museum - whether its at APG or at Fort Lee. I'd prefer a museum of well-preserved non-running vehicles (perhaps with a small number of runners) that can be seen by millions of people day in and day out instead of an entirely running collection that is seen by a few thousand people once a year... But to each his own I guess...

Furthermore, with all due respect to Don and the Patton Museum volunteers, there's no insurance that the "armor museum" that winds up at Fort Benning will be anything like the current museum at Fort Knox - at the very least it wont have the benefit of an in-place crew of dedicated volunteers that it currently does. For better or worse, there might be very little difference between the Ordnance and Armor museums in 5 or 10 years.

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Well I've been holding some pictures from moving day on you Laughing

These were taken when we opened the hatch to drop some bug bombs in the fighting compartment. These are all taken sticking the camera down the hatch.

First one is pretty much straight down


This one is looking aft


This one is holding the camera down in and looking forward and up. The whitge area is the sliding arc hatch in the forward left corner of the compartment


Last interior shot is looking down and towards the right rear corner.


The recoil guard can be seen in most of the pictures to give you an idea of the relationship of the photos

One last photo. While we were waiting for the HETT to get there I was offered a chance togo for a ride in the M88 (They wouldn't let me drive Crying or Very sad ) We spent almost 10 minutes driving around he big field behind where the Elephant had been sitting. This one is from across the field as we were pointed back at the Elephant

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Sundrtonge
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Well here goes. Its my first picture using photobucket, thought id try it over my own site this time. One of the other pics is of the King tiger (with a little of the tiger I (in grey in the background). I assume this is the King at Ft Knox.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:11 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

That picture is from a LOOONNNGGG time ago! It was taken prior to 1985. You can tell because there are no concrete pads. The pads were installed in 1985 (or so) making a good 'Epoch Boundry' for judging photos.

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Sundrtonge
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Its hard to tell on the slides, I think it says June 84 ( I originally thought they were from teh 70's).

If this works I will post the King picture (look in the background for the Tiger I as well).

-Dave
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Sundrtonge
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:22 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Here is the other shot of the Elephant. Again I am sorry if the pics dont post to forum rules, still learning.

-Dave

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Why was the Elefant moved to the railhead?

P-O

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piney
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

I'll let Bob address thst but here is a further trip down memory lane, I apologize in advance for the picture quality, but I just shot pictures of the slides since I haven't had a chance to get them transferred yet
August 1979


March 1980 during the boy scout repaint era


some other goodies, a really colorful 1978 scheme


This is behind the fence now but here's the inscription


These are just plain gone







drooling yet Bob Wink

Jeff Lewis
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- the_shadock
Why was the Elefant moved to the railhead?

P-O


Back at some time in the past the Elephant was sent to Anniston to be worked on. At Anniston the removed the casemate (at least partially with a cutting torch Evil or Very Mad ) It sat at Anniston uncompleted and eventually was sent back to Aberdeen. There it was unloaded from the railcar and sat for at least 7 years until last month

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piney
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:50 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Anniston at work!

Evil or Very Mad

Jeff Lewis
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:30 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

Hi Folks!

- piney
Anniston at work!

Evil or Very Mad

Jeff Lewis


My guess would be that the folks at Anniston couldn't get those plates to come off and planned to replace them with copies when they put the top back on. To bad they didn't get around to finishing what they started.

My SWAG on Anniston's work.
Sgt, Scouts out!

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

- piney


These are just plain gone





Now at Saumur - given back to France in 1987.





Sigh... The thin-skins... I've simply been told they are all "gone" now...

The trucks in the background may be at the Transportation or Quartermaster Museums, but I havent been able to confirm that...







Sd.Kfz. 234/1 sPz Sp Wg 2cm Gun Armored Car I believe... You gotta think its somewhere... They scrapped stuff in the 50s... But I have a hard time believing they would have in the 80s... Possibly overseas...







Hmm... Whats this one???

As for the SdKfz 251 SPW next to it, its probably the one the March 1995 issue of the Journal of Military Ordnance reported as "shipped out."

Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:15 am
Post subject: Re: FLASH UPDATE -- The Abedeen Elephant has been moved

That is the Beobachtungspanzer RK 7 otherwise known as the SdKfz 254. It was an Austrian-made vehicle designed by Saurer that was used as an OP vehicle with armored artillery units.

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