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Chicago Trip Report
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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binder001
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

Both of those tanks seem to be a nice condition. That's always nice to see! Thanks for sharing.

Gary B
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Alf_Adams
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

Here are some photos of the casting numbers on the Wabeno WI M4A3(105)HVSS.

Alf
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Alf_Adams
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

Here are the other pictures that I took of the Tomahawk WI tank. Hope they help. As I mentioned, the rain and the construction crew discouraged me from climbing on the tank for more photos. Maybe on another trip. It certainly is a nice vehicle. For some reason, this site only lets me attach a maximum of 3 pictures at a time, so I will post more photos of the Wabeno tank shortly.

Alf
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

Alf, pix would help, even ones of the rear or sides of the T-hawk turret can show if they have the "cross-hairs" seen on CFM-W turrets.

KL
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Alf_Adams
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

The discussion about the lip on the edge of the M4(105)HVSS turret got me thinking about the ones that I just saw on my fall trip. So here are a couple more shots of the examples in Tomahawk and Wabeno Wisconsin. It appears that one has the lip and one doesn't. If it helps I can also post pictures of the hull and turret casting numbers for the Wabeno tank. It was raining on the day I was in Tomahawk, and I decided not to climb on a very slippery tank to get the numbers.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

Kurt

That is a good SN. I just got back from a quick trip to RMP. I climbed thru the interior and was able to get some good SN (stamped & Cast) photos. I'll post those in a new thread.

Regards
Don
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

- Dontos
The Iraqi/Iranian M4A3(105) HVSS, captured in OIF 1 is SN 72312. It is currently in RMP.



Don, can you check that SN? My records show 72312 was assigned to a Fisher M4A2(76) on an order that was cancelled.

Also, does this tank have the modified turret contour around the cupola that Gary mentioned?

Thx,
KL
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

The Iraqi/Iranian M4A3(105) HVSS, captured in OIF 1 is SN 72312. It is currently in RMP.

Regards
Don
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

As best I can tell the lip was added to provide additional protection to the cupola. Without it the cupola/turret joint is fully exposed. This was a late feature on the casting. It's more likely to be on M4A3(105)s because they were made for two months after the M4A3(75) Ws. I imagine that the other turret foundries supplying these turrets also had this feature, if there were any left at that date.

KL
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binder001
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

I noticed that the M4A3 105mm tanks in Tekama, NE, Forest City, IA and South Holland, IL have turret cast by Continental Foundry & Machine Company, Wheeling, West Virginia. They have a pronounced offset of the commander's cupola creating a "lip" at the edge of the turret. Does anybody know if this was unique to the Wheeling turrets or was there a general mofification to the turret (perhaps to get another couple inches of room inside?).

Gary B.
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vagabond
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:05 am
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

These are shots of the tow lug on the M46 taken 8/2/10.

I had to crank up the contrast to get the numbers to show. Looks like 248 to me.

What do you all think?

Cheers!
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

Gary, I saw the pics you posted. That looks to be some individual part's ID. On large hatch, welded hulls, the rear tow lugs are the place to look.

On an M46 it is the fron lug (like an M60). I have the SN for the Nothlake tank as 246.

KL
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binder001
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

I posted about 53 photos of the M4A3 105mm HVSS to my Picasa album. Here is a direct link to a shot of the number stamped into the rear of the hull.

picasaweb.google.com/g...6754201074

I am open to other interpretations of this number

GB
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binder001
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

Thanks Kurt,

I agree that she seems built as HVSS, the return rollers were bolted to the hull (I actually remembered to look for a change).

Oddly, the "one" as a first digit was the one I was confident of Smile Fortunately I took a photo, albeit a poor one, of the number stamping. I'll look again when I am transferring the photos from the camera to the primary computer - I originally posted via my wife's laptop unit.

GB

PS - now that it's too late - where would I have looked forthe s/n on the M46?
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:42 am
Post subject: Re: Chicago Trip Report

Thanks Gary!

It's almost certain that this tank was built as HVSS because the Army disliked 105s and would not have converted it to HVSS after the war. In fact, it's surprising that this one still exists because most were converted to 76mm tanks with M4A2 turrets. The range of serials for M4A3(105) HVSS tanks was 57623-58207, 64000-64131, 65258-65713, 72892-73435, 74046-75067. What you read was some paint-globbed version of these.

KL
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