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bialy-r · Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia

Sherman in Novi Sad (Serbia)

www.flickr.com/photos/...576337880/

the_shadock · Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Sherman in Novi Sad (Serbia)

seems an M4A3 with 47° glacis ans wet stowage, with a 75mm turret and mantlet, and a 76mm gun.

P-O

tanker2010 · Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Sherman in Novi Sad (Serbia)

It's a M4A3E4. The E4 designates it being regunned with the 76MM gun. Several European countries and India received these through MAP.

bialy-r · Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Sherman in Novi Sad (Serbia)

Other Shermans form Jugoslavia

Park of Military History, Pivka (Slovenia)

Are this two Shermans a M4A3E4 model ?

Monument:
www.flickr.com/photos/...622547494/

Inside museum:
www.flickr.com/photos/...622552046/

binder001 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 363

Yes, the two Shermans in your links are M4A3E4s. THe one inside the museum seems to be in pretty good condition. Even when the batch of Yugoslavian M4A3E4s was used in "Kelly's Heroes" they seemed well used. Not just because the movie people wanted them to look like veteran tanks but in near views the tracks and roadwheels seemed pretty worn down.

bialy-r · Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia

This one from Muzejska Zbirka Naoružanja Domovinskog Rata, Kralovac (Croatia)

picasaweb.google.pl/mi...8145898178

Is it M4A3E4 model too ?

Museum photo gallery:

picasaweb.google.pl/mi...edwebsite#

binder001 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 363

First, yes, that is an M4A3E4.

Second, this is interesting as it has the earlier turret with the applique armor reinforcement on the right front "cheek" of the turret. The M4A3E4s were rebuilt from M4A3 75mm Wet Stowage tanks in the USA for foreign military sales. These tanks generally had the later turrets with the cast in turret reinforcements, although there are some WW2 photos showing M4A3s with the earlier turrets.

clausb · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 146

Binder,

As far as I can tell, the M4A3E4 was rebuilt from VVVS 75mm wet stowage hull as well as M4A3 105mm VVVS hulls, using whatever turrets could be had. Several of the Danish Army M4A3E4 (all ex- 105m vehicles) have older turrets with applique armour and low bustles and the same seems to be the case with these Yogoslav vehicles. Possibly some of the old turrets came from tanks converted to recovery vehicles and such?
My guess is that hulls and turrets were renovated in different production lines, leading to odd mixes in the final product.

Claus B

L.Delsing · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 960

- bialy-r

This one from Muzejska Zbirka Naoružanja Domovinskog Rata, Kralovac (Croatia)

Isn't this actually located in Turanj (SE of Karlovac)?

Regards

Kurt_Laughlin · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 577

- clausb

As far as I can tell, the M4A3E4 was rebuilt from VVVS 75mm wet stowage hull as well as M4A3 105mm VVVS hulls, using whatever turrets could be had. Several of the Danish Army M4A3E4 (all ex- 105m vehicles) have older turrets with applique armour and low bustles and the same seems to be the case with these Yogoslav vehicles. Possibly some of the old turrets came from tanks converted to recovery vehicles and such?
My guess is that hulls and turrets were renovated in different production lines, leading to odd mixes in the final product.

Claus B

Claus, do you have serials for these ex-105mm tanks, or are there other indications that they were built as 105mm? I ask because the Ordnance Committee Meeting discussion of the conversion mentions only 75mm tanks being used for the conversion. Also, because the gun mount was a modified M34A1 75mm mount, using a 105mm turret would require finding a 75mm mount to convert.

KL

tanker2010 · Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia

as well as M4A3 105mm VVVS hulls, using whatever turrets could be had

I understand that to mean they just used the hulls, not the turrets of the 105 Shermans.

Kurt_Laughlin · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 577

- tanker2010

as well as M4A3 105mm VVVS hulls, using whatever turrets could be had

I understand that to mean they just used the hulls, not the turrets of the 105 Shermans.

Yeah, but everything I've seen refers to 75mm tanks (=hulls), not 105mm tanks (=hulls).

The point of the program was to utilize obsolete tanks to support MDAP requirements. Adding complexity and cost by taking hulls from one place and turrets from another would not seem to be in the direction they wanted to go.

KL

Maple_Leaf_Eh · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 517

Ed Storey told me once the reason why the seemingly plentiful Shermans weren't used during the Yugo Civil War '91-'95, was because they were all retired when the T55s appeared. They were distributed around the countryside according to some formula of how many partisans a particular town had contributed.

bialy-r · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia

Military Barracks, Banja Luka (Bosnia and Herzegovina)

s106.photobucket.com/a...600031.jpg

bialy-r · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia

Umknown military area

s106.photobucket.com/a.../?start=40

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