±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 951
Total: 951
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: News Archive
03: Member Screenshots
04: Member Screenshots
05: Home
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Member Screenshots
10: Member Screenshots
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Statistics
14: Community Forums
15: Statistics
16: Photo Gallery
17: Statistics
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Member Screenshots
21: Community Forums
22: Member Screenshots
23: News
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: News
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Member Screenshots
31: News Archive
32: News Archive
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Statistics
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Downloads
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Member Screenshots
49: Member Screenshots
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Member Screenshots
53: Community Forums
54: Statistics
55: Member Screenshots
56: Photo Gallery
57: Home
58: Statistics
59: News
60: Community Forums
61: Downloads
62: News Archive
63: Home
64: Member Screenshots
65: Member Screenshots
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Home
71: Home
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: News Archive
75: Photo Gallery
76: Photo Gallery
77: Member Screenshots
78: Member Screenshots
79: Home
80: Photo Gallery
81: Home
82: Photo Gallery
83: News Archive
84: Community Forums
85: Statistics
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: News Archive
89: Home
90: Member Screenshots
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Community Forums
101: Statistics
102: Member Screenshots
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Statistics
106: Community Forums
107: Member Screenshots
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Member Screenshots
112: Community Forums
113: Downloads
114: Downloads
115: Downloads
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Member Screenshots
119: Community Forums
120: Member Screenshots
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: News Archive
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Your Account
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Statistics
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: News Archive
151: Downloads
152: News Archive
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: News Archive
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Member Screenshots
160: Member Screenshots
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: News Archive
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Downloads
173: Member Screenshots
174: Member Screenshots
175: Statistics
176: Downloads
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Member Screenshots
180: Community Forums
181: Photo Gallery
182: Photo Gallery
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Member Screenshots
189: Community Forums
190: Member Screenshots
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Member Screenshots
200: Downloads
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Member Screenshots
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Statistics
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Photo Gallery
231: News Archive
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Photo Gallery
235: Home
236: Member Screenshots
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: News Archive
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Member Screenshots
244: Community Forums
245: Member Screenshots
246: Downloads
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Member Screenshots
251: Member Screenshots
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Statistics
255: Member Screenshots
256: Member Screenshots
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Photo Gallery
271: News Archive
272: News Archive
273: Member Screenshots
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Member Screenshots
278: News Archive
279: Community Forums
280: Member Screenshots
281: Photo Gallery
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: News Archive
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: News Archive
292: Community Forums
293: Downloads
294: Home
295: Home
296: Member Screenshots
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Statistics
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: News Archive
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Member Screenshots
311: News Archive
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Photo Gallery
315: Member Screenshots
316: Member Screenshots
317: Downloads
318: Member Screenshots
319: Community Forums
320: News Archive
321: Downloads
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: News Archive
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Downloads
331: Member Screenshots
332: Statistics
333: News Archive
334: Community Forums
335: News Archive
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Member Screenshots
340: Downloads
341: Member Screenshots
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Member Screenshots
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Member Screenshots
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Member Screenshots
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Downloads
365: Downloads
366: Member Screenshots
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Downloads
370: Member Screenshots
371: Downloads
372: News Archive
373: Member Screenshots
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: News Archive
377: Community Forums
378: Member Screenshots
379: Statistics
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Photo Gallery
385: Your Account
386: Downloads
387: Member Screenshots
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Photo Gallery
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Downloads
398: Member Screenshots
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: News Archive
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Member Screenshots
407: Home
408: Member Screenshots
409: Community Forums
410: Downloads
411: Community Forums
412: Member Screenshots
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Statistics
424: Community Forums
425: Statistics
426: Your Account
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Your Account
431: Community Forums
432: News Archive
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: News
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Member Screenshots
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: News Archive
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: News
451: Statistics
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Member Screenshots
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: News Archive
458: Community Forums
459: Downloads
460: Community Forums
461: News
462: News Archive
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Member Screenshots
467: News Archive
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: News Archive
472: Member Screenshots
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: News Archive
476: Community Forums
477: Home
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: Member Screenshots
486: Photo Gallery
487: Home
488: Member Screenshots
489: Downloads
490: Community Forums
491: Statistics
492: Member Screenshots
493: Downloads
494: Statistics
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Home
498: Community Forums
499: Your Account
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Downloads
504: Member Screenshots
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Statistics
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: News Archive
514: Home
515: Photo Gallery
516: Community Forums
517: News Archive
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Member Screenshots
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Member Screenshots
528: Member Screenshots
529: Community Forums
530: Downloads
531: Community Forums
532: News Archive
533: Community Forums
534: Statistics
535: Photo Gallery
536: Statistics
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Home
540: Photo Gallery
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: News Archive
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: News Archive
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Home
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Member Screenshots
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: Member Screenshots
559: News Archive
560: Home
561: Member Screenshots
562: Member Screenshots
563: Community Forums
564: Statistics
565: Member Screenshots
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Member Screenshots
569: Community Forums
570: News Archive
571: Statistics
572: Home
573: Home
574: Community Forums
575: Member Screenshots
576: Community Forums
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Statistics
580: Downloads
581: Community Forums
582: Home
583: Member Screenshots
584: Member Screenshots
585: Community Forums
586: Member Screenshots
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Photo Gallery
590: Community Forums
591: Home
592: Photo Gallery
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Member Screenshots
597: News Archive
598: Community Forums
599: Member Screenshots
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Downloads
605: News Archive
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Downloads
609: Member Screenshots
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery
612: Member Screenshots
613: Member Screenshots
614: Photo Gallery
615: Member Screenshots
616: Community Forums
617: LinkToUs
618: Member Screenshots
619: Photo Gallery
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Photo Gallery
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Home
627: Community Forums
628: Statistics
629: Member Screenshots
630: Photo Gallery
631: Community Forums
632: Home
633: Statistics
634: News Archive
635: Downloads
636: News Archive
637: Home
638: Community Forums
639: Member Screenshots
640: Home
641: Your Account
642: Member Screenshots
643: Member Screenshots
644: Home
645: Home
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Member Screenshots
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Member Screenshots
654: Community Forums
655: Photo Gallery
656: Member Screenshots
657: Community Forums
658: Downloads
659: Home
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: News Archive
663: Member Screenshots
664: Home
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Member Screenshots
669: Photo Gallery
670: Community Forums
671: Photo Gallery
672: Photo Gallery
673: Community Forums
674: Member Screenshots
675: Member Screenshots
676: Photo Gallery
677: Community Forums
678: News Archive
679: Member Screenshots
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Home
683: Statistics
684: Community Forums
685: Photo Gallery
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: News Archive
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Home
694: Statistics
695: News
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Photo Gallery
699: News Archive
700: Community Forums
701: News Archive
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Photo Gallery
706: Downloads
707: Photo Gallery
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Downloads
711: Photo Gallery
712: Downloads
713: Community Forums
714: Statistics
715: Photo Gallery
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: News Archive
720: Member Screenshots
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Statistics
724: News Archive
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: News Archive
731: Community Forums
732: Home
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Member Screenshots
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Community Forums
745: Community Forums
746: Photo Gallery
747: Photo Gallery
748: Community Forums
749: Community Forums
750: Member Screenshots
751: Community Forums
752: Home
753: Downloads
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Community Forums
757: Home
758: Statistics
759: News
760: Home
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: Member Screenshots
764: Photo Gallery
765: Community Forums
766: Photo Gallery
767: Community Forums
768: Community Forums
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums
772: Photo Gallery
773: Your Account
774: Member Screenshots
775: Member Screenshots
776: Community Forums
777: Community Forums
778: Member Screenshots
779: Home
780: Community Forums
781: Photo Gallery
782: Community Forums
783: Community Forums
784: Home
785: Member Screenshots
786: Member Screenshots
787: Member Screenshots
788: Community Forums
789: Community Forums
790: News Archive
791: Home
792: Community Forums
793: Community Forums
794: Statistics
795: Community Forums
796: Member Screenshots
797: Member Screenshots
798: Photo Gallery
799: Community Forums
800: News Archive
801: Home
802: Member Screenshots
803: Photo Gallery
804: Downloads
805: Community Forums
806: Community Forums
807: Downloads
808: Photo Gallery
809: Community Forums
810: Member Screenshots
811: Home
812: Home
813: Community Forums
814: Community Forums
815: Community Forums
816: Statistics
817: Community Forums
818: Community Forums
819: Downloads
820: Your Account
821: Community Forums
822: Community Forums
823: Community Forums
824: Statistics
825: Community Forums
826: Community Forums
827: Photo Gallery
828: LinkToUs
829: Community Forums
830: Your Account
831: News Archive
832: Member Screenshots
833: News Archive
834: Photo Gallery
835: Photo Gallery
836: News Archive
837: Home
838: Member Screenshots
839: Community Forums
840: Community Forums
841: Home
842: Member Screenshots
843: Member Screenshots
844: Photo Gallery
845: Home
846: Member Screenshots
847: Community Forums
848: Home
849: Community Forums
850: Home
851: Member Screenshots
852: Member Screenshots
853: Community Forums
854: Community Forums
855: Community Forums
856: News Archive
857: Home
858: News Archive
859: Community Forums
860: News Archive
861: Member Screenshots
862: Community Forums
863: Community Forums
864: News Archive
865: Statistics
866: News Archive
867: Community Forums
868: Photo Gallery
869: Photo Gallery
870: Community Forums
871: Photo Gallery
872: Member Screenshots
873: Photo Gallery
874: Member Screenshots
875: Community Forums
876: Community Forums
877: Home
878: Downloads
879: Community Forums
880: News Archive
881: Community Forums
882: Downloads
883: Member Screenshots
884: Community Forums
885: Community Forums
886: Community Forums
887: Community Forums
888: Community Forums
889: Community Forums
890: Community Forums
891: Community Forums
892: Member Screenshots
893: Home
894: Community Forums
895: Community Forums
896: Community Forums
897: Member Screenshots
898: Community Forums
899: Community Forums
900: News Archive
901: News Archive
902: Community Forums
903: Community Forums
904: Member Screenshots
905: Home
906: Home
907: Community Forums
908: Photo Gallery
909: Community Forums
910: Community Forums
911: Community Forums
912: Community Forums
913: Community Forums
914: Community Forums
915: Statistics
916: Photo Gallery
917: Statistics
918: Community Forums
919: Community Forums
920: Home
921: Community Forums
922: Community Forums
923: Community Forums
924: Community Forums
925: Home
926: Community Forums
927: Community Forums
928: Community Forums
929: Community Forums
930: Community Forums
931: News Archive
932: News Archive
933: Downloads
934: Member Screenshots
935: News Archive
936: Community Forums
937: Community Forums
938: Community Forums
939: Member Screenshots
940: Community Forums
941: Community Forums
942: Community Forums
943: Community Forums
944: Member Screenshots
945: Community Forums
946: Member Screenshots
947: Community Forums
948: Statistics
949: Home
950: Community Forums
951: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
T95 Info
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:28 am
Post subject: T95 Info

I figured I'd open a new thread for this.

Here is a couple of outakes regarding the 'basic' T95 suspension from 1958 document.







Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

The 1958 data sheet on the T95 which mentions two types of track, the T114 & T115.



Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Here is a sample of the diffeent variants of T95, beside the 'usual' ones.....













Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:04 am
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Hi,

Moved from the Ft. McCoy thread:

- Kurt_Laughlin
The T114 track was for "Tanks T95, T96, T110 and other vehicles having similar suspensions" according to OCM 36316 (20 SEP 56) that assigned the nomenclature. T114 track was double pin with rubber bushings, hence live. It is listed as being lighter than the T108 and T109 which were for the same vehicles. They were live tracks as well.

T108 - Replaceable rubber chevron grousers
T109 - Replaceable steel grousers
T114 - Integral rubber chevron grousers

KL


Live? Are you sure? It doesn't look 'live'...no end connectors. It looks to me like a scaled-up version of the M113 track, which I'm pretty sure is not 'live' track. I think the rubber bushing reduces the squeak and protects the pins. I could be wrong...

{Added: From Dontos first post here: "...flat-track type suspension..." = non-live track. I think I prefer "flat" to "dead" and will use it that way.}

As for Doug's question about return rollers, I'm not sure that they are indicative of track type except that the lack of them usually indicates 'flat' track. On the other hand, many WWII German and Soviet vehicles had return rollers with flat (non-live) track. It may be related to the allowable stresses on the drive sprockets and idlers? Better post war designs could handle the lateral/shear stresses of the unsupported return run of track, where previous examples could not?

I know that the US went with live track early-on, which improved track retention at high speeds. It seems that when weight became an issue (M41, M551, M113) the designers went back to flat track though.

Interesting discussion!

C

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Live is my presumption for rubber bushed track. As best I can tell the US hasn't used any "dry pin" or dead tracks since WWII. BTW, "flat track suspension" means no return rollers, regardless of the design of the track blocks itself, don't interchange flat and dead Smile Most German WWII and Soviet tracks until the 1980's were dead. Other than the Pz I through IV and the KV and IS series, all the suspensions in that period were flat.

The main reason for using live track is to reduce rolling resistance. Because the track wants to curl around the wheels alread, it takes less power to move them.

The M113 used T130 tracks, which were single pin with rubber bushings. The rubber was bonded to the hole in the track and to a steel liner with a hexagonal hole that was positioned just so. The track pins were hexagonal, so the orientation of the tracks to each other was fixed.

I suggest anyone interested in this stuff to get or read "The Technology of Tanks" by Richard Ogorkiewicz (sp?). A great two volume book. [EDIT - Good golly! I just checked on Amazon and used copies are going for $850!!!. It was "only" $105 when I got mine back in '91 or '92.]

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:54 am
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

- C_Sherman
Hi,

Live? Are you sure? It doesn't look 'live'...no end connectors. It looks to me like a scaled-up version of the M113 track, which I'm pretty sure is not 'live' track. I think the rubber bushing reduces the squeak and protects the pins. I could be wrong...


C


Re: M113 track...at least the original stuff...laid stone flat on the ground, easy to bend and of course, mount (you could pull the track on by hand once you had the road wheels on the track). I can't say about some of the later stuff, like Diehl(?) track. I have pics of later M113's with an end connector type track...that might be "live"...can't say.

Sorry to open a can of worms, but this "live/dead/flat" and "supported/unsupported" issue has been bothering me for a while (you could say, forty years or so). I'm not sure there is a definitive answer, but there must be some conventions*. Kurt?


*Only one I'm pretty sure of is that "live" track has bushings that "encourage" the track to bend "inwards" to assist it's travel around sprocket and idler's and thereby to keep the track where it's supposed to be. Beyond that, it gets real fuzzy for me in some cases.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:08 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

- Kurt_Laughlin
Live is my presumption for rubber bushed track. As best I can tell the US hasn't used any "dry pin" or dead tracks since WWII. BTW, "flat track suspension" means no return rollers, regardless of the design of the track blocks itself, don't interchange flat and dead Smile Most German WWII and Soviet tracks until the 1980's were dead. Other than the Pz I through IV and the KV and IS series, all the suspensions in that period were flat.

The main reason for using live track is to reduce rolling resistance. Because the track wants to curl around the wheels alread, it takes less power to move them.

KL


Live track is simply track that, by some mechanical means (usually a wedge bearing on machined surfaces on the track pins), incurs a tendency to curl inward when 'relaxed'. Flat track lays flat.

Design differences aside, there is no functional difference between WWII German track and the track on the M113. The rubber bushings are a refinement, not a fundamental engineering change.

Live track may reduce rolling resistance, but cannot reduce power requirements. Basic physics: TANSTAAFL. The major advantage of live track is a resistance to shedding at high speeds, because the track naturally prefers move around rather than away from an idler or sprocket. The curl helps the track to maintain contact and overcome centripetal forces that pull it away from the wheel. Live tracks generally require return rollers to avoid overstressing the track by bending it 'backwards' on the top 'return' runs. Such bending increases the risks of broken track pins, which require replacement and defeat the purposes of using the live track in the first place.

The advantages of flat tracks are in the manufacturing process and in the maintenance requirements, and thus costs. Live tracks require a certain amount of (relatively) precise machining in manufacturing, and can be more difficult and resource intensive to maintain. Flat tracks don't require the level of precision or manufacturing effort that live tracks do, and are (relatively) easier to maintain in service.

Flat tracks may or may not use return rollers, because they are able to bend 'backwards' to some extent, without problems. Modern tendencies are to use larger roadwheels and allow the track to touch or nearly touch the tops of them. (The WWII Germans tried it both ways and seemingly preferred no return rollers with their later designs.)

I'm just a dumb ol' engineer, and I didn't write no books. But this stuff I 'get'. A curious tanker that asks a lot of questions in engineering school can learn a lot,and I did!

Chuck

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:31 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Chuck

WOW!! That is an excellent descriptive. I think I even understand that.


I'm actually learning something new here.

"Training has taken place"
Thank you
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Well, somebody wanted nomenclature conventions and that's what they are.

Flat Track Suspension - Return run of track supported by the tops of the road wheels.

Dry Pin Track = Dead Track – Tracks with pins that float freely within the track blocks. “Dead” is also used to describe worn tracks where the bushing in “Live” tracks no longer maintains the proper angular orientation between adjacent blocks.

Rubber Bushed Track = Live Track – Tracks with pins that are fixed in relation to the track blocks. "Rubber bushings eliminate metal-to-metal contact between the pins and the links and the necessary angular movement between them is provided by torsion of the rubber, the outer surface of the bushings being fixed to the links and the inner surface to the pins." (TOT)

I’ve attached a scan from a TM showing the M113 track block.

i75.photobucket.com/al...1track.jpg

As you can see, the pin and the bushing hole are both hexagonal. A hexagonal pin in a hexagonal bushing hole means the pin cannot rotate relative to the bushing. If the theory is that the T130 tracks are “dry pin” types, then the obvious question is, why go to the added expense? If the theory is that the T130 tracks are “dry pin” types, then the bushing must be free to spin within the track block. If that is true, why was it necessary to place the adjacent blocks at a 20-degree angle when reconnecting track?

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:52 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Kurt

Pulling something from my 'endless bag of tricks', here is a couple of photos of a track block from an M113, that I just happen to have available here at home......





It is amazing the assortment of items one collects over the years.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Hi Folks! Sorry I am so late to the party.

Looks like Kurt needs some back up and I am here to do that.

While I don't have Dr. O's books that Kurt suggest reading, I do have Armoured Forces, A History of Armoured Forces and Their Vehicles and Design and Development of Fighting Vehicles by the good Doctor.

Who is Dr. Richard M. Ogorkiewicz?

"....is an internationally recognized expert on armour." and "....is an internationaly recognised authority on ..(AFVs)..and has lectured on the subject in Britain, ..United States, Sweden and Israel."

When it comes to the design of AFVs this was the man to go to during his time.

There are three types of track used on AFVs,
1. Band track, rubber with steel cables inside. examples US Halftracks, M50, M56, M114. Works well on smaller AFVs.

2. DEAD track block. Note this is a type of block used to make up a track.
examples: just about every Soviet tank up until they started using Live track block during the mid Cold War era. Most tracked vehicle designs started out with dead type track block and the Soviets stuck with it. The tank would be destoryed before the short life of that type of track was reached. It was a lot easier to teach Ivan how to take it apart and put it back to together. Remember most Ivan tankers came from a farm where horse powered equipment was the standard. Dead track block was just like hooking up a team of horse to a plow or wagon. It can be made faster and it cost less than live block.

3. Live track block, Note again, this is a type of block used to make up a track. Examples: Every US light and medium tank from the mid 1930s up to now. It cost more to make, needs more care, but it last a lot longer than dead track block.

To Chuck, "It doesn't look like 'live' track, no end conectors.
Sorry but end connectors have NOTHING to do with live track. Track block with end connectors is a type of live track. That T95 has a live track and the M113 has a live track.

Don't know what type of track block you are looking at, check the rear of hull where the track begains the return to the front. It the block is dead, there will a wedge block that will push the dry pin back into the dead blocks.

Sorry Doug!
If your M113 track layed flat and the end blocks did not lift up off the ground, then that track was dead or dying and needed to be replaced. For the most part very little new track was shipped to the RVN. Track was removed at the depots from vehicles that where being shipped out for rebuild and that used track was shipped to the field. It is a case of most vehicles would be damaged/destroyed before the track died. No need to waste new live track block.

Back to Chuck:
Your "I prefer 'flat' to 'dead' and will use it that way." doesn't work.
That is the same as saying I perfer Applies to Oranges and will use Applies anytime I see an Orange.

DEAD or dead track is a TYPE of track block, FLAT Track is a feature of the 'Christie' tracked suspension system. It has nothing to do with the type of block used.

A comment about 'Christie suspension'.
Dontos your are correct, the T95 has a 'MODIFIED Christie suspension'.
The M114, M551, the M107/110 hulls, the T55 and T62s all have 'MODIFIED Christie suspensions'. The T34 Family of vehicles, T54 and most of the British Crusier tanks up to the Comet have true 'Christie suspensions'.

Vehicles with a Christie or Modifed Christie don't have support rollers so the road wheels have more room to move upward.

It is sad that we lost the old site. This subject came up back in June of 2000.
Spot report! Passed my bed time, see you folks later.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:18 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks! Sorry I am so late to the party.


Sorry Doug!
If your M113 track layed flat and the end blocks did not lift up off the ground, then that track was dead or dying and needed to be replaced. For the most part very little new track was shipped to the RVN. Track was removed at the depots from vehicles that where being shipped out for rebuild and that used track was shipped to the field. It is a case of most vehicles would be damaged/destroyed before the track died. No need to waste new live track block.

Sgt, Scouts out!


No doubt. Laughing I replaced three road wheels on "Head Shoppe" and you should have seen what came off. Only one replacement was "new", the others were just "not as bad" as what was on there. Only had to retrack once and it was flat as a pancake. My pics of X-Ray's little incident in the field don't show the track due to the heaviness of the bush, but it was the same way.

Here's a shot of a Sheridan track, most likely salvage from a "beyond repair" vehicle.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

Great shot! Notice how the last track shoe near the hull is lifted off the ground. That LIVE track still has a bit of life left in it.

The Long Bin Depot would set that track aside and when needed ship some of or all of it out to a unit requesting some track. The vehicle would get shipped out of county without the tracks.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:10 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

Roy said:

Track was removed at the depots from vehicles that where being shipped out for rebuild


Flash forward 25 years to Fort Irwin and you'd have the same situation with the M551's there. Crewed them from 87-89 and we drove the crap out of them. Combine that with the fact that most parts production had been halted years ago and all we would get was war stock/ rebuild/ refurbished you'd get some pretty interesting deliveries. The only other unit that used them by then was 3-73 Armor at Fort Bragg. When a tank was coded out (warped/ cracked hull ) it was stripped. Officially we could send them off with just 4 road wheels and arms. Unofficially we would also exchange every working part we could for broken ones if the item was required for turn in. Short of a hull being cracked/ warped we would fix them up ourselves. Track and sprockets were in serious shortage for a while. Pretty bad when exchange criteria was either one of the center guides was broken on a block or the bushings were so wore out the nut on the track pin was damaged and a socket wouldn't fit on it. Right before I left they started sending us war stock track and they also started the M551/OPFOR model production at Anniston.

Point was, you could definitely tell when you had dead block track. The noise of it slapping on the hull was very obvious when doing 35-40 MPH in the Desert while you prayed it didn't snap Shocked !!! 324 (C24) did and she flipped ass over nose when what was left of the track bunched up.

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: T95 Info

- Roy_A_Lingle


It is sad that we lost the old site. This subject came up back in June of 2000.

Sgt, Scouts out!


I would have missed it anyway, as I don't think I found the DG for a couple more years, maybe three.

The Wayback website might have some of that stuff archived, but then again, maybe not. The old site became untenable anyway so it's not as if we had a choice.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum